Let me just make sure I had all the details first, since some things
were left unsaid and require assumptions. If I read what you are
saying correctly, I agree with Keith on this one and it doesn't appear
viable.
1)You make BioD with the Lye/methanol method
2)Separate out the BioD from the glycerin/soap/lye/methanol by gravity.
{Note: You do not acidify the layer and convert the Soap back to FFA.}
3)Boil off the methanol (possible recovery but inmaterial to
discussion) and leaves you with glycerin/soap/lye.
4)You add water and more lye and mix
IF the above is what you are doing, this will leave you with the same
amount of glycerin, the same amount of soap, more lye and water.
The only way you would get more soap would be if you had left over
BioD or unreacted oil in there that didn't separate out in step 2.
Even then you would still end up with lye heavy soap and it would be
very harsh.
FFA Na+ OH- (aq) <-> Soap and water
BioD Na+ OH- (aq) <-> Soap and methanol
Oil Na+ OH- (aq) -> Soap and glycerin
One viable option would be to take some water and unreacted oil and
add the glycerin layer (without the methanol). Do not add anymore
lye. The extra oil can react with the lye left over in the glycerin
layer and make soap. You know how much lye you added so you can
estimate the amount of oil to add to use up all the lye from the
reaction. You do not want any lye unreacted in soap as it will make
it very harsh.
I hope this helps, but if anything in the 4 steps at the beginning is
off let me know and I can go through the reactions based on your
actual process.
Andy
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 04:15:03 +0900, Keith Addison
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Luc
>
> As you know I'm a bit sceptical but do not seek to discourage! I'm
> most interested to see what you achieve.
>
> >What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can
> >follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close
> >to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use
> >it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too.
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html
> >I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I
> >hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as
> >a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action
> >and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three
> >diffenrent approaches.
> >1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product
> >2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product
> >30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product
>
> The amount of lye needed will depend on how much you used in the
> biodiesel process, ie on the titration result.
>
> >Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps
> >above 65C (148.5F)
>
> Well above - probably until it stops bubbling. Not something to do in
> an enclosed space.
>
> >and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once
> >the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the
> >water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a
> >mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I
> >have it figured out :-)
> >The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was
> >going to do that and it did. Some gelatenous substance caked a
> >portion of the hardened glycerine and had to be scrapped off, but
> >the result was still solid bars.
> >The second and third recipes are yet to be finished however they
> >already show more potential, primarily the third which began
> >solidifying almost immediately and shows good promise.
>
> The trouble is it's not just glycerine, and if it were you wouldn't
> be able to make soap out of it - glycerine is an ingredient of soap,
> a non-essential ingredient furthermore. Soap is made out of fats and
> oils, and the fats and oils you'll be making soap out of this way
> (soap with a VERY high glycerine content) (and a high content of
> impurities) will be the Free Fatty Acids displaced from the brew by
> the NaOH. Aka soapstock or foots. Not the ideal material for the
> making of quality soap. From about soapstock/foots here:
>
> The Fats and Oils: a General View, by Carl L. Alsberg and Alonzo E.
> Taylor, 1928, Food
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#fatsoils
>
> Food Fats and Oils (1994) -- online book (Acrobat file, 1.3Mb):
> http://www.iseo.org/foodfatsoils.pdf
>
> >I shall keep you posted as to the success/failure of this as we go along.
>
> Please do, and good luck.
>
> >No sense throwing away a perfectly good product if it can be used
> >eh? I am determined that it will.
>
> There are other choices before you get to throwing it away. Before
> you get to composting it too.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>
>
> >Luc
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuel mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
>
_______________________________________________
Biofuel mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
