>GC is a prooven lab method, one can by it from the (lab equipment shop) >shelf, and it is the method required by the various national quality >standards for testing many of the quality parameters of BD. > >NIR for BD is not developed, not calibrated, not understandable exept for a >few academic researchers who are able to understand, for example, the subtle >issues discussed in the papers by Dr. Knothe and others. > >Any body is free to invest his time, accept Dr. Knothe's offer and work with >him on developing that method. Hope somebody is able to do that important >job. > >Stringent quality control is a MUST for BD producers and businesses in >development! >TODAY! We simply have no time to go out and still develop new methods.
Help develop. I suspect we (biodiesel businesses, not me) have no time to do anything else than explore all possible options. The main work's already been done on this one, not much distance left to travel, and that with expert assistance, so why knock it? Yes, you can buy a GC off a shelf, but there are well-known difficulties with GCs, otherwise why would you be saying this: >We >need proper quality controll yesterday. NIR can help solve many of those problems. As you say, getting it to the plug-in-and-play state is an important job. So why by so discouraging, Camillo? It's to address just such problems that I formed this group - this is the place for it. Just yelling "It doesn't work!" is not helpful. >Please understand that if now >dozends of people go comercial in the states and do not bother on quality >(maybe because they are used to home brew methods only), we are damned shure >to have bad press in a matter of weeks, not months. Just see what happens >now in Germany. > >The German drivers assoc., ADAC, issued a press release stating that 25% of >Germanys 900 BD pumping stations did not adhere to DIN fuel standard. Ouch! >The article went to press, of course. > >We may very well spoil our potential market substantially, if we go into the >same quality trap. All the more reason to put some effort into NIR, no? Regards Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ >Camillo Holecek > > >-----UrsprŸngliche Nachricht----- >Von: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >t.com >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >s.onelist.com]Im Auftrag von Keith Addison >Gesendet: Donnerstag, 02. August 2001 20:33 >An: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com >Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [biofuels-biz] NIR > > >Well, Camillo, what do you want, to buy the thing off a supermarket >shelf? For now, Knothe's developed methods and he's willing to help >people learn how to use them in the field. As you say, it's an >ultra-violet issue - uh, infra-red, damn, I mean ultra vital! (Just >kidding!) So at least there's a way for BD producers to come to the >rescue of themselves, with a bit of necessary help. BD producers >don't seem like a helpless bunch, far from it. Also, one of the GC >machines Steve found is cheap. Not beyond the means of a commercial >producer, even if using it isn't that easy. Pooling resources and >technology-plus-skills amongst a few producers, as Steve plans, makes >it feasible, and NIR too, no? > >Regards > >Keith Addison >Journey to Forever >Handmade Projects >Tokyo >http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > >Keith, you just answered your question..... > > > >Dr. Knothe said himself, that the method still HAS TO BE DEVELOPED !!! > > > >So all I say is, that all this is -very unfortunatly- NOT YET a practical > >solution to our needs in BD producing. I realy get the feeling that 99% of > >us folks on this list have not even read the DIN or the proposed CEN > >standard and have not the slightes idea as to where to obtain any analysis > >for their BD products. > > > >THIS IS AN ULTRA VITAL ISSUE !!! > > > >Carmakers like VW are about to reconcider their approvement of BD because >of > >the emminent lack of proper scientific quality assesment found with BD > >producers everywhere. This is no joke any more. > > > >So again, Dr. Knothe is doing important academic work, and I would like to > >compliment him on that. But he has no analysis gadget of the shelf that > >would come to the rescue of us upcoming BD-producers. Period. > > > >Camillo Holecek > > > > > >-----UrsprŸngliche Nachricht----- > >Von: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >t.com > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >s.onelist.com]Im Auftrag von Keith Addison > >Gesendet: Mittwoch, 01. August 2001 22:37 > >An: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com > >Betreff: Re: AW: [biofuels-biz] NIR > > > > > > >Sorry if it happens that I have to spoil your hopes, > > >but according to our research into the matter we belive that there is NO > > >turn key solution or product for our (biodiesel) tasks available! All >there > > >is is basic research that tries to find out, if transesterification can >be > > >monitored one good day, using NIR. > > > > > >Please correct me, if I am prooven wrong. > > > > > >Camillo Holecek > > >Biodiesel Raffinerie GmbH, > > >Austria > > > >Hi Camillo > > > >Did you see this, posted previously? > > > > >NIR Helps Turn Vegetable Oil into High-Quality Biofuel -- ARS News > > >Release, June 15, 1999 > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/NIR.html > > > > > >Dr Knothe sent me these papers on his work, now uploaded: > > > > > >Rapid Monitoring of Transesterification and Assessing Biodiesel Fuel > > >Quality by Near-infrared Spectroscopy Using a Fiber-Optic Probe, by > > >Gerhard Knothe, JAOCS 76, 795-800 (July 1999) > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/NIR1.html > > > > > >Monitoring a Progressing Transesterification Reaction by Fiber-Optic > > >Near Infrared Spectroscopy with Correlation to 1H Nuclear Magnetic > > >Resonance Spectroscopy, by Gerhard Knothe, JAOCS 77, 489-493 (May > > >2000) > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/NIR2.html > > > > > >He also said: > > > > > >"Probably the most time-consuming and relatively complex part of NIR > > >is developing the method and preferably verifying against another > > >analytical method (GC) with biodiesel that meets standards. After > > >that, it should be straightforward. As you indicate, please direct > > >any questions regarding that matter (I assume that would probably > > >generate the most) and any other inquiries to me and I will be happy > > >to try to answer them. > > > > > >"Best regards, > > > > > >"Gerhard Knothe" > > > >Dr Knothe has done a lot of work, and as he says he's prepared to > >help anyone setting up an NIR system. Sounds good to me. > > > >Best > > > >Keith Addison > >Journey to Forever > >Handmade Projects > >Tokyo > >http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > >Biofuels at Journey to Forever > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuel at WebConX > >http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > >Biofuels at Journey to Forever > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuel at WebConX > >http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > >Biofuels at Journey to Forever >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >Biofuel at WebConX >http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > >Biofuels at Journey to Forever >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >Biofuel at WebConX >http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! 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