Ya got it all wrong, Mike. I've never made any claims about earthquakes or flame colors.
Looks like the laugh is on you. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Cook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Yeah, good ole Steve Spence has some good stuff occasionally, but he is a > bit off the wall... I am still giggling over the blue flame is clean and the > yellow flame is dirty... not to mention that there is NO pollution when your > burn alcohol... And the bald face BS about earthquakes being caused by > pumping out oil.... AHEHEHEHEH! > > I rest my case that the AE goof balls need to be a bit less goofy and a bit > more practical... else nobody will listen, unless they are tuning in to > "comic relief" > > Laughing Max > > Subject: Re: Making Ethanol Fuel > > > > > > On Sat, 11 May 2002, Steve Spence wrote: > > > > > Alcohol - the clean Fuel! > > > As earlier generations who used alcohol lamps will testify, alcohol > burns > > > clean, does not pollute, and can be burned in a closed room without > toxic or > > > odor effects - without the need for mechanical ventilation systems. > Because > > > it is such a clean burning fuel, you need not use smog-devices on your > > > engine as you are emitting only carbon dioxide (which is essential for > our > > > plant life to produce clean fresh oxygen) and water. So if you are > using > > > only alcohol as a fuel, you can remove your smog devices and recover the > > > > I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. Running an engine on alcohol does not > > emit "only carbon dioxide" as pollutants. When you burn ANYTHING, you > > produce nitrogen oxides, simply because our atmosphere is composed of such > > a large percentage of nitrogen. Sure, if you burned alcohol in an > > atmosphere of pure oxygen you wouldn't produce any NOx, but that's just > > not realistic. Emissions from an alcohol burning engine are mildly cleaner > > than from a gasoline burning engine. Now, when you factor in that the > > carbon dioxide produced from burning alcohol actually came from plants, > > and would be consumed again to make more plants (to make more sugar, > > etc.), then there is in effect no net production of CO2 from burning > > alcohol, which is where the benefit is. > > I don't object to saying alcohol is a cleaner fuel, but please, > > get it right. The cleanliness comes from the net zero production of CO2. > > There are still other pollutants emitted (including CO, NOx). > > > > > Alcohol burns more completely than gasoline. You may recall the days > when > > > spark plugs were wired to the tailpipes of cars to make flames shoot out > the > > > tailpipes. This occurred because the gasoline was not being completely > > > burned in the engine. It passed right through the engine and out the > > > exhaust system. > > > > That was back when internal combustion engines were very inefficient. A > > well tuned modern engine with electronic fuel injection burns the gasoline > > nearly completely. And alcohol would not burn any more completely than > > gasoline, in a properly tuned engine. It all comes down to things like > > having the proper Air to fuel ratio, having the valves open and close at > > the right times, etc. Old engines had unburned gas coming out the tailpipe > > not because they were using gasoline, but because the design of the > > engine was bad, allowing fuel to be injected into the cylinder, and some > > of it go right out the exhaust valve before it closed. That would happen > > with alcohol too. > > > > > This seems to be the decade to "Save the Earth" and most organizations > are > > > focusing on subjects pertaining to the things on the earth's surface. > This > > > is and excellent movement. Now let us take a moment to examine what is > > > happening to our earth below it's surface. Every day our earth is being > > > hollowed out by the removal of nearly 50 millions barrels of oil. These > oil > > > wells are leaving voids all over our planet, and the oil turned into > fuel, > > > and the fuel going up into smoke. What happens to the vacancy left by > the > > > oil? Some remain vacant holes and others are filled with seeping water. > > > > > Many experts agree that the earth's water table is lowered by about > three > > > feet each year. > > > > What?!?!?!! No way. > > I agree that it's not a good idea to pump out fluids from the > > earth's crust like we are, but please, get your facts right. Besides, the > > earth isn't being "hollowed out". When oil is pumped out of the ground, it > > doesn't leave huge caverns, because the oil is primarily within porous > > rock. So the oil is simply being pulled out of the rock, leaving porous > > rock with air in there instead of oil. > > > > > and "earthquakes". From Alaska to Mexico there have been many huge > quakes > > > and we feel that it is more than coincidental that this coastal area is > > > where so much oil is being pumped out daily. > > > > Mmmm.... how much oil is pumped out of the coastline from Alaska to > > Mexico? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's somewhere > > pretty close to none. > > > > > There is an Alternative > > > Alcohol has been a proven product and motor fuel for nearly a century. > It > > > comes from products grown on top of the earth surface. It is > non-polluting. > > > It emits only CO2 (carbon dioxide) which is essential to plant life, and > > > water, which is essential to most all types of life. > > > > No. I agree that alcohol is a better fuel, but please, get your facts > > straight. Otherwise you're just allowing anyone who's pro-oil to pick > > plenty of holes in your argument. Burning alcohol does pollute, as burning > > anything creates nirtous oxides. You say it emits only CO2 which is > > essential to plant life. CO2 is the main greenhouse gas, so emitting it is > > NOT a good thing. The reason why alcohol is better than gasoline is > > because the alcohol is made by growing plants, and the CO2 it emits is no > > greater than the amount of CO2 the plants use in the process of growing, > > before they are made into alcohol. So the nice thing about alcohol (or > > biodiesel, or vegetable oil) is that the net production of CO2 is zero. > > > > > Gasoline emits mostly carbon monoxide which is most commonly known as a > > > fatal poison to most forms of life. > > > > Wrong! Burning gasoline emits mostly carbon dioxide. So if you go with > > your argument of "carbon dioxide is essential to plant life", then based > > on your argument gasoline is just as "clean". A *small* amount of carbon > > monoxide is created from burning either gasoline or alcohol. Mostly > > carbon dioxide is created, which is a greenhouse gas, and undesirable. > > > > > Alcohol and Gasoline (Gasohol) > > > There are few advantages in mixing alcohol and gasoline together. If > you > > > > There are advantages to mixing alcohol and gasoline. Starting a car > > on alcohol is rather difficult, particularly in cold climates. So, having > > a small amount of gasoline in there to help with starting is nice > > (alternatively, a separate small tank of gasoline could be used for > > starting). > > > > > intend to do so, you will need at least 195 proof alcohol to avoid > > > separation of the alcohol and gasoline. But 160 to 180 proof ETHANOL > used > > > straight is A MUCH > > > > > > > > > > > > BETTER FUEL. We urge you to conduct your own simple comparison test by > > > placing a small amount of alcohol and a small amount of gasoline into > clean > > > separate containers, and light each fuel afire. You will notice a > > > difference in the clean blue flame of the alcohol and the dirty yellow > flame > > > > So you're saying that a yellow flame is dirty, and a blue flame is clean? > > Mmmm... no. I have a torch at work that I burn methane in, and I can make > > the flame either yellow or blue. So is it clean or dirty? The color is a > > result of the heat of the flame, which is a result of the air to fuel > > ratio. That's why if you want to run an internal combustion engine > > designed for gasoline on alcohol, you need to tinker with the fuel > > injection to get the air to fuel ratio right. > > > > Mike > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Visit the web version at http://www.egroups.com/group/3rdworldenergy or The Renwable Energy Site that spawned this, http://www.webconx.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
