Keith said:
>> I suppose you could feed it to pigs if there's some pressing reason
not to sell it,
>> but the rational thing to do is to sell it, or you risk cutting the
profitability of a
>> major segment of the farm to perhaps below economic levels. It's the
sustainability
>> aspects that will suffer first.
I suspected that profit might bear into this discussion. And I suppose
that rightly so. We could probably debate "profitability" ad nausium
but, there is certainly little room for loss on a family-run farm. A
point well made!
Why do you object to milk production? Or is it, again, that you're
objecting to industrialised milk production?
I wouldn't say that I object to milk production at all, I am questioning
the sustainability of the practice and also the nutritional value to
humans. And yes, I do most definitely object to industrialized milk
production. Really, I'm just trying to understand. Hopefully, it
might help someone else also.
There's a calf in the first place, then the milk. No calf every year,
no milk either. Industrial operations remove the calf after two or
three days and feed it a commercial brew instead (often containing
cattle blood, IIRC). No need for that, there's enough milk for the
calf and plenty for the market as well.
Right, but I assume that we have both been on the same page for some
while now that we are not discussing industrial operations. We both
agree that industrial farming will have to cease eventually. If, in
practice, there really is enough for the calf and still for market, then
I MIGHT be willing to do some reconsidering. More research on my part
there.
And we're not using human manure for fertilization.
Why not? With ley farming there's no need for anything extra, you'd
use the humanure elsewhere on the farm. It's only part of an overall
composting operation anyway, and of course ley farms do composting as
well.
Well, I don't think that the practice is allowed in the U.S. regardless
of its value. I probably should have worded that point differently to
include only the United States.
I'm still reading (and probably will be for quite a while). Doesn't
a lactating cow consume more water and food?
So what?
So, IF (speculating, of course) there is no net gain, then the
additional inputs are wasted and could be better used elsewhere. My
question is at what point do you begin to notice diminishing returns?
In other words, if I reduce the amount of acreage that I provide for
grazing (because I am not taking milk from my cows) can I grow more food
for human consumption?
Isn't that an increase in the competition for resources that you
mentioned previous?
What competition for resources did I mention? I'm not thinking in
terms of competition but of symbiosis, collaboration among parts of a
whole.
here:
I said:
> You are correct, livestock definitely help us
> tend the soil but, that doesn't mean that you have to eat
> the animal for it to be beneficial to you.
You said:
>> Actually it does, eat them or compete with them.
>> The more you read, the more things begin to corroborate
>> each other and fall into place, then it's easier. This is the place
to start:
>> Introduction to "An Agricultural Testament"
>> http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howardAT/AT1.html
>> An Agricultural Testament - Albert Howard - 1
The problem is that there are too many resources that corroborate one
another on both sides of this debate. Don't think that this is the
first time that I have had this discussion. I spent a long time (a
really long time) making the decission of cut meat and dairy out of my
diet. I was also raised in a family with a long farm lineages on both
sides. Dairy farming is a way of life that I am fairly familiar with.
I think that our views are close enough that I can certainly accept you
promoting your views. I also don't think that it is irresponsible for
me to suggest that people eat a balanced diet of fruits, vegetables and
grains grown by local organic family farms while only consuming meat
when an animal has outlived its usefullness. I don't see us agreeing
100% on this issue though. But, if you can convince me, I'll be your
poster child.
If our societies would just return to responsible hunting and gathering,
we would have no need for this conversation.
Take care,
Ken
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