Hakan,
I don't disagree with your comments about Kieth. After all, his background in journalism and his understanding of what the "free press" really means, helps keep the group's objectivity.
Kieth: were talkin' about ya -- hope you don't mind
:-)
My biggest concern is what to do about a moderator who does not understand the responsibility associated with authority and becomes zealous with power for his/her own personal gratification -- authority for it's own sake. We could be talking about a group of thousands who eventually decide to tolerate abusive behavior because it is outweighed by the information gained. I would think that many in this list take issue with that -- especially having discussed our political climate. I've personally seen (off-line, in-person) clubs and associations who have adopted this behavior and they give me the creeps. I'm not a sociologist or mental health professional, but I draw parallels between this kind of small scale, group behavior and cults or even dictatorships.
Perhaps I'm reading too much into this. I just find it difficult to actively resist abuse of power off-line and tolerate it on-line.
Mike
Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mike,
In essence, what you are saying, is that Keith is among the best moderators
out there. It might be explained by that he after all is professional, but
it is also a skill in dealing with people. So, if you want this as a topic,
it will be a well deserved "love song" to Keith. It would not be the first
time.
Hakan
At 09:44 PM 7/16/2005, you wrote:
>Kieth wrote "...too much abuse, and not only of the list."
>
>I was kicked off a Yahoo! Group today: RefrigeratorAlternatives
>
>Maybe it was me. However, some shared my opinion that there were too much
>hostilities toward fellow members. Unlike this group, I found that going a
>little off topic earned you a nasty-gram from the moderator (who referred
>to it as "my group"). Since your getting the story from only one side,
>I'll stop there.
>
>I've been a part of this list for a while so you have some experience
>about my opinions, my attitude and my writing style. Of course I've made
>mistakes, used strong language and debated aggressively. However, I don't
>think the moderator of RefrigeratorAlternatives truly has the interest of
>the group in mind.
>
>I'm very disappointed. It looked like a great topic for an on-line discussion.
>
>Is there anyone else who had a similar experience?
>
>Mike
>
>Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>Thanks for the encouragement, Mike.
>
> >Kieth,
> >
> >Earlier, you mentioned how companies like Monsanto try to infiltrate
> >groups like ours. In addition I'm sure that there are many
> >emotionally driven and misguided individuals like Tim who are acting
> >on their own.
>
>Yes, an endless trickle, Chinese water torture, LOL!
>
>Sorry, I know it's not funny, I am sympathetic. "Everybody, soon or
>late, sits down to a banquet of consequences," said Robert Louis
>Stevenson, and I don't envy some of these people the feast that
>awaits them. But it's not a workable sympathy, too much abuse, and
>not only of the list. It's the garbageman people take to abusing when
>the garbage happens to be them, and that's me, LOL! But if you don't
>like bouncers then shape up and learn how to behave. Quite often it
>works out that way! too, I'm happy to say. Otherwise it's just a job,
>it's not a matter of personalities, which I've said before, and it's
>true, but these people will never believe that. What they want to
>believe is their problem.
>
>When I told Tim I wouldn't let him lead the list in another crazed
>circular argument like he'd done before, he answered: "Oh, so is this
>about list leadership?" Huh? Another guy who got abusive in this
>thread told me I'm a control freak.
>
>On the contrary, when we moved the list from Yahoo last year it was
>less control I was after. Much of our thinking was in helping the
>list to be a self-moderating community, which it kept trying to be
>but it kept getting shot down because one or two simply had the wrong
>attitude - regardless of their views, they didn't think of
>communities, they thought of themselves. I posted a few messages
>about this at the time. "The second Welcome message sent onlist is
>from the administrat! ors - rules, of a sort. The gist of it is that
>the list is an online community, for sharing and mutual benefit, not
>a shop where you can be demanding and the customer's always right.
>Once you realize that it's all fairly obvious. If you come to a
>mailing list via Yahoo though you might be more inclined to see it as
>a shop - the wrong expectations, and another reason for leaving
>there."
>
>It worked well, it's much more a self-moderating community now.
>
> >In the past, I've mentioned (rhetorically) that we have strength in
> >solidarity. The fact that we can debate about the details but stay
> >unanimous about almost everything else
>
>There are so many different kinds of people here, from different
>backgrounds, different places, different cultures. It's great!
>Solidarity in diversity.
>
> >shows extraordinary strength and fidelity for this type of forum and
> >I think we stand a better chance than most in defendi! ng ourselves
> >and this group from such kinds of sabotage.
>
>I'm glad other list members think that too, so do I, but on the other
>hand I don't want to be overconfident. The fakes at Bivings did a lot
>of harm, they're not dumb.
>
> >The Margolis article below is a great example of how this list is an
> >extremely important conduit for getting the truth out to potentially
> >millions of people. Many in this group have contributed in big ways
> >and others are inspired to do the same.
> >
> >You have earned many titles Kieth.
>
>Yes! Though you wouldn't want to hang all of them on your wall.
>
> >One which I feel you've earned many times over is that of activist.
> >Through this group and your work with JTF, you have directly
> >effected the lives of thousands of people (myself included).
> >
> >...for what it's worth.
>
>It's worth a lot to me Mike, many thanks.
>
>Regards
>
>Keith
>
>
>
> >Mike
> >
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