In a message dated 8/2/05 2:27:19 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: <Lets take the good old drunk. . .He is ultimately responsible for his actions. . .The <alcoholic wants instant gratification and finds alcohol his tool.
this perspective is meaningless and stupid. there are 'drunks', as you like to call them, and there are alcoholics. two very different things. for the alcoholic, 'wanting' the pleasure of alcohol has little if any bearing. rather, it's a powerful, fundamental drive that goes beyond addiction or dependence or any other type of moralistic language you might wish to apply to it. <His choice is not <one of drinking or not drinking, because that choice has been removed from <his book. He has crossed the line and once crossed, the choice is removed. <The alcoholic's choice is whether or not to stay sober. err, yes it is. it is by not drinking that one remains sober. . . . <For a man and woman to consent in having a relationship, even the quickie <instant gratification relationship. It takes two for consensual sex, the <line has been crossed. That couple has consented to give their bodies. hmm, the 'gratification' theme again. sounds to me as though for you the issue is really about how they "[gave] their bodies". less about whether 'life' resulted. yes, i put 'life' in quotes, becuase there are widely varying viewpoints on what can be defined as 'life', and what it means to respect and uphold it. >Yes, they can choose to justify their need for instant gratification. . . . yet more of this 'instant gratification' stuff. why don't you drop the code and just say it straight out: you don't consider yourself part of the problem; you consider yourself morally superior. in spite of all your talk of 'we' and 'our', you're clearly drawing a line between yourself and most or all of the rest of this forum. >. . .behind many different doors, one of which is abortion. when have you EVER heard ANYone use abortion to *justify* ANYthing? most certainly not here in this forum, and i for one have never, categorically never, heard anyone use abortion as a justification for any 'need'. certainly, noone has ever used abortion as justification for throwing bombs at fertility clinics, or at "right to 'life'" gatherings. <Instant gratification, around the world has gotten. . . . oh brother, not again. just what the devil are you talking about? what 'instant gratification'? like a cool drink of water when i'm thirsty, or something? >God has a good solution for sex. . . . ROFLMAO now i understand. but then, i don't. most anyone will tell you that sexual gratification is hardly 'instant'. semi-seriously, though, this isn't about god. it's about you. *you* have a 'solution for sex'. or at least you think you do (as though sex were a problem that needed solving). you'd best get over it, because you are in a very small minority. very small. in fact, even smaller than that, because rest assured there are those within your minority that secretly believe very much otherwise. as regards stewardship and responsibility, let's confine our discusion to subjects which are *demonstrably* connected to environmental degradation, based on scientific, peer-reviewed data. shall we? not ad hominem, ideological-theological tautology and sophistry. -chris b. _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
