If its one of those old brass hand-held blow torches it uses kerosene. ----- Original Message ----- From: "clark creamer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 12:17 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New question was The myths of Hiroshima
> First post.... > > If you're talking WWII style or Vietnam style flamethrower then you're > talking Napalm...heh. > > ~Clark > > On 8/7/05, Tom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I passed by the local used everything store and saw an old style blowtorch. > > It looked like it was in working order and cost next to nothing. I > > immediately though now that would make a nice preheater to boil off any > > excess water in my waste vegetable oil. If this is in the archives I´m sorry > > but it´s early and I haven´t had my morning cup yet. What the heck did they > > use to fuel these suckers? Do you think it can run on BioD or glycerine > > byproduct? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tom > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Garth & Kim Travis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > > Sent: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 15:40:16 -0300 > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima > > > > Greetings Tom, > > > > Yes, many of us would not be here. Canadian forces were also training for > > that invasion. I was always taught that it was the code of death before > > dishonor that made the bombing necessary. I am not saying that is correct, > > but I wonder how scared of Russia anyone would have been by that time in the > > war. As I understand it, one of the things the Russian people hated America > > for was the long wait before they joined, which allowed Russia to be > > seriously depleted. I do understand that the Japanese were already > > commandeering cooking pots etc. for metal to make weapons, so they must have > > known the end was in sight, but that had been going on for long enough to > > scare many people into believing they would not surrender, period. > > > > It is easy to start myths during war time, people are so scared and the > > average person is not told much of the truth for good reasons, many times. > > I see it today, so many people are so scared of terrorism and have no idea > > of how it started. How does one educate a population that is now in it's > > second or third generation of ignorance of history, science, math, > > philosophy and common sense? > > > > Bright Blessings, > > Kim > > > > At 01:23 PM 8/5/2005, you wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > Although I'm in agreement about the Enola Gay exhibit, I will have to > > disagree about the use of the bombs. As slightly more modern barbarians we > > really have no idea of the mindset of Japan's WWII government. Perhaps Keith > > can give his insights since he lives close by. My reading of that history is > > that Japan's military had a stranglehold on the government. That their way > > was the Bushido way. There's a lot of death before dishonor in that line of > > thinking. My father related many stories to me of the kamakazi attacks > > during the invasion of Okinawa. That they were ineffective does not discount > > their willingness to die. There were a lot fewer prisoners taken in the > > Pacific war. Some of that was certainly racism on our side but a fairly good > > piece of it wasn't. I've spoken with many veterans from that campaign. Many > > reasonable men told me quite frankly that the Japanese would rather die than > > surrender. If they could die taking a few of their enemy with them all the > > better. If this willingness to die was prevelent in their armed forces I > > think one can make the jump that if the home islands were attacked that our > > casualties would be very high. Perhaps not the million so often quoted but > > if it was only a quarter of that, many of us who are currently alive would > > never have been born. My father was in training for the invasion when the > > bombs were dropped. He told me everyone on board his troop transport > > breathed a sigh of relief when they realized they would not have to invade. > > I personally have no use for nuclear technology or nuclear weapons and am > > fully against them. But the truth be told, I'm here today because they were > > used and we haven't had a world war since thier invention. > > > > my two cents for the day, > > > > Tom Irwin > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Appal Energy [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > > Sent: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 14:21:01 -0300 > > Subject: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima > > > > http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-bird5aug05,0,760322.story > > > > > > > > The myths of Hiroshima > > > > By Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin, KAI BIRD and MARTIN J. SHERWIN are > > coauthors of "American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert > > Oppenheimer," published earlier this year by Knopf. > > > > SIXTY YEARS ago tomorrow, an atomic bomb was dropped without warning on > > the center of the Japanese city of Hiroshima. One hundred and forty > > thousand people were killed, more than 95% of them women and children > > and other noncombatants. At least half of the victims died of radiation > > poisoning over the next few months. Three days after Hiroshima was > > obliterated, the city of Nagasaki suffered a similar fate. > > > > The magnitude of death was enormous, but on Aug. 14, 1945 — just five > > days after the Nagasaki bombing — Radiadio Tokyo announced that the > > Japanese emperor had accepted the U.S. terms for surrender. To many > > Americans at the time, and still for many today, it seemed clear that > > the bomb had ended the war, even "saving" a million lives that might > > have been lost if the U.S. had been required to invade mainland Japan. > > > > This powerful narrative took root quickly and is now deeply embedded in > > our historical sense of who we are as a nation. A decade ago, on the > > 50th anniversary, this narrative was reinforced in an exhibit at the > > Smithsonian Institution on the Enola Gay, the plane that dropped the > > first bomb. The exhibit, which had been the subject of a bruising > > political battle, presented nearly 4 million Americans with an > > officially sanctioned view of the atomic bombings that again portrayed > > them as a necessary act in a just war. > > > > But although /patriotically/ correct, the exhibit and the narrative on > > which it was based were historically inaccurate. For one thing, the > > Smithsonian downplayed the casualties, saying only that the bombs > > "caused many tens of thousands of deaths" and that Hiroshima was "a > > definite military target." > > > > Americans were also told that use of the bombs "led to the immediate > > surrender of Japan and made unnecessary the planned invasion of the > > Japanese home islands." But it's not that straightforward. As Tsuyoshi > > Hasegawa has shown definitively in his new book, "Racing the Enemy" — > > and maany other historians have long argued — it was the Soviet Union'ss > > entry into the Pacific war on Aug. 8, two days after the Hiroshima > > bombing, that provided the final "shock" that led to Japan's capitulation. > > > > The Enola Gay exhibit also repeated such outright lies as the assertion > > that "special leaflets were dropped on Japanese cities" warning > > civilians to evacuate. The fact is that atomic bomb warning leaflets > > were dropped on Japanese cities, but only after Hiroshima and Nagasaki > > had been destroyed. > > > > The hard truth is that the atomic bombings were unnecessary. A million > > lives were not saved. Indeed, McGeorge Bundy, the man who first > > popularized this figure, later confessed that he had pulled it out of > > thin air in order to justify the bombings in a 1947 Harper's magazine > > essay he had ghostwritten for Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson. > > > > The bomb was dropped, as J. Robert Oppenheimer, scientific director of > > the Manhattan Project, said in November 1945, on "an essentially > > defeated enemy." President Truman and his closest advisor, Secretary of > > State James Byrnes, quite plainly used it primarily to prevent the > > Soviets from sharing in the occupation of Japan. And they used it on > > Aug. 6 even though they had agreed among themselves as they returned > > home from the Potsdam Conference on Aug. 3 that the Japanese were > > looking for peace. > > > > These unpleasant historical facts were censored from the 1995 > > Smithsonian exhibit, an action that should trouble every American. When > > a government substitutes an officially sanctioned view for publicly > > debated history, democracy is diminished. > > > > Today, in the post-9/11 era, it is critically important that the U.S. > > face the truth about the atomic bomb. For one thing, the myths > > surrounding Hiroshima have made it possible for our defense > > establishment to argue that atomic bombs are legitimate weapons that > > belong in a democracy's arsenal. But if, as Oppenheimer said, "they are > > weapons of aggression, of surprise and of terror," how can a democracy > > rely on such weapons? > > > > Oppenheimer understood very soon after Hiroshima that these weapons > > would ultimately threaten our very survival. > > > > Presciently, he even warned us against what is now our worst national > > nightmare — and Osama bin Laden's frequently voiced dream — an atoatomic > > suitcase bomb smuggled into an American city: "Of course it could be > > done," Oppenheimer told a Senate committee, "and people could destroy > > New York." > > > > Ironically, Hiroshima's myths are now motivating our enemies to attack > > us with the very weapon we invented. Bin Laden repeatedly refers to > > Hiroshima in his rambling speeches. It was, he believes, the atomic > > bombings that shocked the Japanese imperial government into an early > > surrender — and, he says, he iss planning an atomic attack on the U.S. > > that will similarly shock us into retreating from the Mideast. > > > > Finally, Hiroshima's myths have gradually given rise to an American > > unilateralism born of atomic arrogance. > > > > Oppenheimer warned against this "sleazy sense of omnipotence." He > > observed that "if you approach the problem and say, 'We know what is > > right and we would like to use the atomic bomb to persuade you to agree > > with us,' then you are in a very weak position and you will not > > succeed…. You will find yourselves attempting by force of arms to > > prevent a disaster." > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuel mailing list > > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > > messages): > > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuel mailing list > > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > > messages): > > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuel mailing list > > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > > messages): > > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
