Hi All,
Just a quick note from the microbiologist running around my head. If you are using concentrated vinegar as weed killer be careful at what time of year you use it. Fall and winter is the best time. Soil bacterial love acetate ion as a source of food. Your basically adding a lot of degradable carbon to the soil. This will cause a large increase in bacteria which will tie up large amounts of nitrogen and some phosphorus making it temporarily unavailable to plants for growth. It might not just be the low pH that is killing the weeds.
Tom Irwin
From: Garth & Kim Travis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 08:19:38 -0300
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: PANUPS: Rethinking Roundup
Greetings,
I buy mine at the feed store. There is a web site, but I lost it in the
last crash, it will tell you the nearest retailer in the US and Canada.
Bright Blessings,
Kim
At 06:05 AM 8/9/2005, you wrote:
>Where would one get it? If I try to make I always seems to
>get vinegar worms...
>
>Garth & Kim Travis wrote:
>
>>Greetings,
>>Yes, plain store bought vinegar doesn't kill much but the 20% vinegar
>>that is 4 times stronger can really work well in the proper conditions.
>>Bright Blessings,
>>Kim
>>
>>At 10:35 PM 8/8/2005, you wrote:
>>
>>>Vinegar seems to work pretty good on dandelions, not
>>>much effect on other weeds. I use the large jug (four
>>>liters) size from the discount grocery store, plain
>>>white vinegar.
>>>
>>>Joe
>>>--- Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>>>
>>> > Arrgg. Why did you have send that? Now I have get
>>> > rid of a gallon of
>>> > that crap. Anyone know how to render it safe before
>>> > disposal?
>>> > Also, does anyone have any ideas on using
>>> > concentrated vinegar to
>>> > control weeds?
>>> >
>>> > I had no idea it was so deadly.
>>> >
>>> > -Mike
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Michael Redler wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > More on Roundup and Monsanto:
>>> > > *Drugs war in Columbia - the true cost
>>> > > *The true cost of the US's so-called "drugs war"
>>> > in Columbia (see
>>> > > Environment Health News 16 p13) is mounting. There
>>> > have now been 4,000
>>> > > human and 178,000 animal reported cases of serious
>>> > skin, eye,
>>> > > respiratory and digestive problems due to the mass
>>> > spraying of
>>> > > Monsanto's Roundup and Roundup Ultra herbicides.
>>> > > [more]
>>> > > http://www.ehn.clara.net/pesticides.html
>>> > > *Monsanto
>>> > > A brief introduction to the Monsanto Corporation*
>>> > > Monsanto is a humanitarian's worst nightmare. A
>>> > company who plays
>>> > > the PR game so well that many of the people who
>>> > consume their products
>>> > > have never even heard of them, they were
>>> > responsible for manufacturing
>>> > > Agent Orange, the extremely toxic defoliant which
>>> > the U.S. military
>>> > > sprayed all over Vietnam (and consequently, also
>>> > American GI's) in the
>>> > > 60s and 70's. Agent Orange, which contained large
>>> > amounts of the
>>> > > deadly chemical Dioxin, has now been banned
>>> > worldwide and is still
>>> > > affecting the Vietnamese people two generations
>>> > later. It is also
>>> > > largely believed to be the main cause for many of
>>> > the illnesses
>>> > > associated with soldiers returning home from
>>> > Vietnam. From 1962 to
>>> > > 1970, the US military sprayed 72 million liters of
>>> > herbicides, mostly
>>> > > Agent Orange, on over one million Vietnamese
>>> > civilians and over
>>> > > 100,000 U.S. troops. As a result, within ten years
>>> > of the close of the
>>> > > war, 9,170 veterans had filed claims for
>>> > disabilities caused by Agent
>>> > > Orange. The VA denied compensation to 7,709,
>>> > saying that a facial rash
>>> > > was the only disease associated with exposure. In
>>> > 2002, Vietnam
>>> > > requested assistance in dealing with the tens of
>>> > thousands of birth
>>> > > defects due to Agent Orange. In order to avoid
>>> > medical compensation
>>> > > expenses, Monsanto continues to claim this now
>>> > banned chemical is not
>>> > > toxic.
>>> > > Monsanto's most commonly used product on the
>>> > market today is
>>> > > glyphosate, or "Roundup." It is a similarly deadly
>>> > defoliant that is
>>> > > used to eradicate "invasive" plants around
>>> > telephone poles, on
>>> > > sidewalks and farms all over the world and most
>>> > commonly within the
>>> > > US. One of the major consumers of Roundup is the
>>> > United States
>>> > > military, who under the guise of the "War on
>>> > Drugs," sprays the
>>> > > defoliant from helicopters in and around small
>>> > villages in the
>>> > > sovereign country of Columbia in South America,
>>> > claiming to be
>>> > > targeting coca plantation. Coca is the mildly
>>> > stimulating plant which
>>> > > is the main ingredient in the production of
>>> > Cocaine Hydrochloride,
>>> > > commonly known by Americans as "Coke" or
>>> > "Cocaine."
>>> > > [more]
>>> > > http://www.thehumanrevolution.org/monsanto.html
>>> > >
>>> > > */Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/*
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > >Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 18:23:57 GMT
>>> > > >From: "Pesticide Action Network North
>>> > America"
>>> > > >Subject: PANUPS: Rethinking Roundup
>>> > > >
>>> > > >Rethinking Roundup
>>> > > >August 5, 2005
>>> > > >
>>> > > >A recent study of Roundup presents new
>>> > evidence that the
>>> > > >glyphosate-based herbicide is far more toxic
>>> > than the active
>>> > > >ingredient alone. The study, published in the
>>> > June 2005 issue of
>>> > > >Environmental Health Perspectives, reports
>>> > glyphosate toxicity to
>>> > > >human placental cells within hours of
>>> > exposure, at levels ten times
>>> > > >lower than those found in agricultural use.
>>> > The researchers also
>>> > > >tested glyphosate and Roundup at lower
>>> > concentrations for effects on
>>> > > >sexual hormones, reporting effects at very
>>> > low levels. This suggests
>>> > > >that dilution with other ingredients in
>>> > Roundup may, in fact,
>>> > > >facilitate glyphosate's hormonal impacts.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >Roundup, produced by Monsanto, is a mixture
>>> > of glyphosate and other
>>> > > >chemicals (commonly referred to as "inerts")
>>> > designed to increase
>>> > > >the herbicide's penetration into the target
>>> > and its toxic effect.
>>> > > >Since inerts are not listed as "active
>>> > ingredients" the U.S.
>>> > > >Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)does not
>>> > assess their health or
>>> > > >environmental impacts, despite the fact that
>>> > more than 300 chemicals
>>> > > >on EPA's list of pesticide inert ingredients
>>> > are or were once
>>> > > >registered as pesticide active ingredients,
>>> > and that inert
>>> > > >ingredients often account for more than 50%
>>> > of the pesticide product
>>> > > >by volume.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >The evidence presented in the recent study is
>>> > supported by earlier
>>> > > >laboratory studies connecting glyphosate with
>>> > reproductive harm,
>>> > > >including damaged DNA in mice and abnormal
>>> > chromosomes in human
>>> > > >blood. Evidence from epidemiological studies
>>> > has also linked
>>> > > >exposure to the herbicide with increased risk
>>> > of non-Hodgkin's
>>> > > >lymphoma, and laboratory studies have now
>>> > begun to hone in on the
>>> > > >mechanism by which the chemical acts on cell
>>> > division to cause
>>> > > >cancer. A Canadian study has linked
>>> > glyphosate exposure in the three
>>> > > >months before conception with increased risk
>>> > for miscarriage and a
>>> > > >2002 study in Minnesota connected glyphosate
>>> > exposure in farm
>>> > > >families with increased incidence of
>>> > attention deficit disorder.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >Studies have also documented glyphosate's
>>> > toxicity to wildlife and
>>> > > >especially to amphibians. Recently, studies
>>> > conducted in small ponds
>>> > > >with a variety of aquatic populations have
>>> > presented evidence that
>>> > > >levels of glyphosate currently applied can be
>>> > highly lethal to many
>>> > > >species of amphibians.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >Glyphosate is the world's most commonly used
>>> > agricultural pesticide,
>>> > > >and the second most-applied residential
>>> > pesticide in the U.S. Recent
>>> > > >evidence notwithstanding, glyphosate is
>>> > considered less hazardous
>>> > > >than other herbicides, an attitude that has
>>> > increased the
>>> > > >pesticide's use and desensitized policymakers
>>> > to its impacts. The
>>> > > >spraying program in Colombia to eradicate
>>> > coca and opium poppy-the
>>> > > >raw materials for cocaine and heroin-is one
>>> > example. A mixture of
>>> > > >glyphosate and several inerts has been
>>> > sprayed aerially over more
>>> > > >than 1.3 million acres of farm, range and
>>> > forest lands in that
>>> > > >biologically diverse nation for five years.
>>> > The U.S. Drug Czar
>>> > > >recently noted that despite the spraying,
>>> > which is funded by the
>>> > > >U.S. government, the number of hectares in
>>> > coca production has
>>> > > >remained essentially unchanged. A report on
>>> > the impacts of the
>>> > > >spraying produced for the Organization of
>>> > American States has been
>>> > > >sharply criticized by AIDA, an environmental
>>> > organization, because
>>> > > >the analysis failed to assess the impacts of
>>> > deforestation resulting
>>> > > >from movement of illicit crops into
>>> > previously forested areas,
>>> > > >adverse effects on endangered and endemic
>>> > species, substantial
>>> > > >collateral loss of food crops, livestock and
>>> > fish, and human health
>>> > > >effects. Authorization of next year's funding
>>> > for the spray program
>>> > > >is now underway in the U.S. Congress, where
>>> > the Senate
>>> > > >Appropriations Committee complained in a
>>> > non-binding narrative
>>> > > >report, "The Committee is increasingly
>>> > concerned ... that the aerial
>>> > > >eradication program is falling far short of
>>> > predictions and that
>>> > > >coca cultivation is shifting to new
>>> > locations."
>>> > > >
>>> > > >The herbicide is used in forestry in North
>>> > America to reduce
>>> > > >grasses, shrubs and trees that compete with
>>> > commercial timber trees.
>>> > > >Glyphosate is also widely introduced into the
>>> > environment and the
>>> > > >human food chain through cultivation of
>>> > transgenic, or genetically
>>> > > >engineered crops that are tolerant to the
>>> > herbicide and contain
>>> > > >glyphosate residues. "Roundup Ready" crops
>>> > have been responsible for
>>> > > >increased use of the herbicide in recent
>>> > years. Monsanto's sales of
>>> > > >glyphosate have expanded approximately 20%
>>> > each year through the
>>> > > >1990s, accounting for 67% of the company's
>>> > total sales as of 200l.
>>> > > >EPA estimates glyphosate use in the U.S. is
>>> > 103-113 million pounds
>>> > > >annually.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >Sources: Sophie Richard, Safa Moslemi,
>>> > Herbert Sipahutar, Nora
>>> > > >Benachour, and Gilles-Eric Seralini,
>>> > Environmental Health
>>> > > >Perspectives, Vol. 113, No. 6 June 2005,
>>> > > >http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/members/2005
>>> > > >/7728/7728.html; Glyphosate Herbicide Fact
>>> > Sheet, Journal of
>>> > > >Pesticide Reform, Winter 2004, Vol. 24, No.
>>> > 4, Northwest Coalition
>>> > > >for Alternatives to Pesticides NCAP,
>>> > > >http://www.pesticide.org;
>>> > > >Rethinking Plan Colombia, New Science on
>>> > Roundup: Threats to Human
>>> > > >Health land Wildlife, Las Lianas, June 2005,
>>> > > >http://www.laslianas.org/Colombia/Rou
>>> > > >ndupFactSheet--June2005.doc; Critical
>>> > Omissions in the CICAD
>>> > > >Environmental and Health Assessment of the
>>> > Aerial Eradication
>>> > > >Program in Colombia, Interamerican
>>> > Association for Environmental
>>> > > >Defense (AIDA); The Center for International
>>> > Policy's Colombia
>>> > > >program, Relevant Text from the Bills So Far,
>>> > the 2006 Aid Request,
>>> > > >http://ciponline.org/colombia/aid06.h
>>> > > >tm#Senate; PANNA, Monsanto Corporate Fact
>>> > Sheet; PANNA, Global
>>> > > >Pesticide Campaigner, Inert Ingredients in
>>> > Pesticides, Sept. 1998.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
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>>
>>
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