Hi Bob;
Yes I figured the link was bogus (I guess you didn't notice my note to
that effect) so where is the real patent application do you have a
link? How did you find it? Ray do you have it?
BTW I did a quick test last night using a tesla coil and 40ml of WVO
with 15% methanol. Of course the potential was ac instead of dc but I
was curious and it was an easy thing to try. I could see a light
colored phase coming off the wire at the tip where the feild is most
concentrated. This was at ambient conditions. I didn't see any gas
bubbles (the email said a byproduct was hydrogen) until I actually drew
a submerged arc which was probably just vaporized methanol. I'll have
to build a proper HV stack and try it with DC.
Joe
bob allen wrote:
Joe, just a couple of comments. all kinds of claims can be made in
patent applications, whether they work or not remains to be seen. the
process is simple enough that one could try it and see. I did look at
the patent application. some of their nomenclature is ambiguous, so
it is not clear exactly what the products are claimed to be.
BTW, the link you provided is unrelated. It discusses an enzyme
catalyzed process.
Joe Street wrote:
Hi Bob;
Well although I agree if it aint broke don't fix it but according to
the original post this electrically activated process does not
require methoxide. If it is true what a nice advancement. According
to the original post IIRC it said the process involves adding 15%
methanol and the reaction happens at 85 deg C while passing by a DC
electrode of 3 to 5kv potential. Here I just found and copied the
text out of a reply to a previous post. The subject line of the
thread was Titanium (?)
snip -
Hi There:
The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOH
and running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get
100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate.
The only other byproduct is hydrogen. Very cool, just a little
scary.
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=biodeisel&OS=biodeisel&RS=biodeisel
http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7
Ray
snip-
The patent reference does not appear to be the right one. Ray??
Joe
bob allen wrote:
Joe Street wrote:
Howdy Pardner....
bob allen wrote:
Howdy Joe (I just had to write "Hey Joe" before. its the lead to
a Jimmy hendrix song I enjoy.)
Yeah I get that a lot. When they ask me "where you goin with that
gun in your hand" I say "This is my rifle and this is my gun, This
is for shooting and this is for fun"
Ok thanks for your corrections and information below. As a chemist
you are a boon to this list. Have you given any thought to the
other thread about using some form of energy input to make the
esterification reaction go? Apparently it can be done with a high
electric field strength and passing the oil/alcohol mixture at
elevated temperature (and pressure I am guessing since the vapor
pressure of methanol at 85 deg C must be above atmoshpere). I was
also wondering about using intense UV light. Any thoughts?
To drive a chemical reaction, you need two things: Provide
activation energy to move the reaction along and some way to force
any equilibrium in the direction you want it to go (for reversible
processes). Traditional base catalyzed transesterification uses heat
to provide the activation energy and excess methanol to drive the
equilibrium further.
Other ways to provide the activation energy may be possible, but I
would question whether one process was any more cost effective or
energy efficient than the traditional methods. To make a long story
short, I haven't given it a lot of thought, but for your average
Joe(ok another feeble pun), stick with what works.
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