I've seen this before, and it works. Worked about a year on a similar project. The problem, as I see it, is what energy source is strong enough to create the plasma? If you believe in the law of conservation of energy (which I do) then you need either a big wire to the power plant, or else a VERY LARGE solar collection system to make enough power. We experimented with a 450kw marine diesel generator. I don't remember the numbers but can tell you this: starting with say, 10-20 gallons of (water, anti-freeze, pig manure, whatever) you could run creating about 15-20 SCFM of Hydrogen gas with CO and other trace hydrocarbon gases. A great amount of heat is also generated (about 400kW). So, unless you have a use for the heat, you have created 400 kW worth of (waste) heat and about 50 kW worth of gas. And that assumes no other losses. Then you must collect, filter and compress the collected gas. Is that free? Anyone who says they have an operational unit is looking for stock 'investors', and I would be leery of giving more than 10 cents. Yes, it can be done, but is economically infeasible, IMHO. Also note: the waste material you are reacting in the plasma reactor doesn't go away fast. Run all day and you'll loose about 5 gallons? (maybe 10? OK, 20) We're talking about running a half meg generator to make 10 gallons (if that) go away? If interested, I can find links to those doing it.
Andy Message: 7 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:31:36 -0600 From: Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] changing trash into fuel To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 http://www.nrel.gov/csp/lab_capabilities.html#hfsf I had read a few years ago about NREL using their solar furnace to turn waste into plasma. At the time they were just trying new ideas to get rid of toxic waste, but solar is a possible fuel source for a plasma reduction unit that doesn't use electricity. At the time they were saying that this concentrator could produce the hottest man made temperature outside of a hydrogen bomb. I saw a piece of 1/2" high strength steel sheet with a 2" hole blasted through the middle in about two and a half seconds. On 9/15/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The plasma torch system of changing trash into fuel appears to > be catching on in Japan. This article says it can produce three to > four times as much energy in carbon-rich gas, and 50% more > energy than it uses in the form of hydrogen gas. Does anyone > know more about it? > > htmttp://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-02-26-hot-garbage > _x.htm > > "Hot trash-to-fuel technology gathering steam By Timothy > Gardner, Reuters > > NEW YORK ? Got garbage? Toxic trash? Zap it with a torch three > times hotter than the sun and gather the resulting gas to fuel > pollution-free cars and home power units. > > It may seem like an idea out of a mad scientist's notebook, but > the method ? known as plasma torch technology ? is gaining > acceptance with governments and corporations, especially > those with growing waste problems. > > "If you can reduce trash and at the same time produce a valuable > gas, more power to you," said Charles Russomanno, a U.S. > Department of Energy renewable energy expert. > > Hospital waste, municipal trash and polychlorinated biphenyls > (PCBs), an industrial compound suspected of causing cancer, > all can be blasted with a plasma torch to make gases that can > be burned to produce electricity. > > Companies including privately owned Westinghouse Plasma > Corp., spun off from Westinghouse Corp., Georgia-based > Geoplasma, LLC, and British-based Tetronics Plasma ionize air > or other gases until they conduct electricity. The process is > similar to what goes on in a fluorescent lightbulb ? only at an > extreme temperature of 30,000 degrees Fahrenheit. > > Plasma torches break waste into an obsidian-like stone, heavy > metals that can be recovered for resale, and carbon and > hydrogen-rich gases that burn like natural gas. One company, > Startech Environmental, takes the process a step further, refining > the gas through a membrane to make pure hydrogen gas for fuel > cells. > > Hydrogen quest > > Automobile and energy companies have invested billions of > dollars in hydrogen fuel cells that produce power through a > chemical reaction, with water vapor as the only byproduct. > > President Bush has encouraged the race to hydrogen by > seeking for next year's budget $228 million, a 43% increase, to > develop fuel cell cars and suitable service stations. Last year, he > launched a five-year, $1.2 billion research initiative with the aim > of reducing dependence on foreign oil and putting fuel cell cars > on the road by 2020. > > Japan, where dumping costs are high, is becoming a world > leader in plasma technology. In 2002, Hitachi Metals along with > Utashinai City, helped build the first plasma plant, which > produces 8 megawatts of power by torching auto waste. > > Startech signed a $1.3 million contract last fall with Japan's > Mihama Inc. to break down PCBs. In February, it signed a $34 > million deal with Italian company FP Immobiliare to torch > computer waste. It has also offered to operate a free test unit to > treat some of New York City's waste. > > "Where we put trash gets more expensive every day," said > Carmen Cognetta, a counsel to the NYC Department of > Sanitation. > > New Mariners > > Hydrogen is like seawater to the thirsty Ancient Mariner ? it's > everywhere, but not in a usable form. It's the most abundant > element in the universe, but separating it from oxygen in water > takes large amounts of energy. > > Currently, most hydrogen is produced at oil refineries to meet > petrochemical refining needs, although the process is expensive > and the yields are small. > > The cheapest energy source for separating hydrogen is coal, but > burning it can produce hazardous amounts of greenhouse > gases and toxic compounds. > > In the future, energy may be provided by solar and wind power, > which for now are too pricey. > > So, torch technologies have potential, says Columbia University > geophysicist Klaus Lackner. They will provide an additional > niche "and if your hydrogen turns out to be cheaper than that of > your competitor, then you have a great market." > > Owen Connolly, director of product marketing at New York-based > Plug Power Inc., a producer of fuel cell power systems, said 25 > cubic feet of hydrogen produces 1 kilowatt hour (KWH) of > electricity from its power units. > > If the 225 million U.S. car tires disposed of annually were zapped > by Startech units, enough hydrogen would be produced to supply > 500,000 homes with electricity for an entire year. > > The more toxic the garbage, the higher the "tipping fees" for > municipalities and the more torch processors can collect. > > New York City, which produces 12,000 tons of garbage per day > and trucks it as far away as Ohio, will soon be seeking a cost > evaluation from Startech and other companies, said Cognetta. > > Some argue that using the torch requires almost as much > energy as it produces. Startech's Chief Operating Officer Joseph > Longo, however, said the system can produce three to four times > as much energy in carbon-rich gas, and 50% more energy than it > uses in the form of hydrogen gas. > > That makes the technology, along with nuclear, wind and solar > power, an alternative to fossil fuels like coal to build a hydrogen > supply, said DOE's Russomanno. > > "Will it significantly meet the needs of the U.S. for hydrogen? It > will be one technology of many," he says." _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
