First, it should be noted that, while relative costs can be informative,
it is difficult to compare the cost of bottled water to gasoline,
diesel, etc. What would the water cost if you brought a 20 gallon tank
to the "water plant" and filled it? What would gasoline cost if sold in
1 liter or 4 liter containers off the shelf?
Second: Hybrid automobiles do not necessarily tout to "save" money. It
is a system that uses less fuel/mile. That's less pollution, CO2 etc.
The overall cost to operate may be less, or more than "conventional",
but shouldn't matter. Those who can afford the up front costs should
use the technology. (Give up their SUV for a hybrid?). In the long
run, it is a valuable investment in our future. Oh yeah, by the way,
You'll also run "lower" than average fuel costs in operation. I'm sure
there is a pattern of use (long over road miles vs. short in-town
commuting) that will obtain maximum efficiency, and can yield the user
monetary benefit over conventional. Those outside the curve may not get
the max benefit, but will benefit the world. Cost of battery
maintenance/life is an unknown.
A similar comparison is solar voltaic electric. Costs now run
$25,000-$30,000 US to solar power a house. Depending on where you live
the cost and % augmentation required will vary, obviously. Payback is
probably 15-20 years. Again, at first more wealthy can afford the
technology. But as more and more is purchased and manufactured the cost
will come down, technology will improve, and by and by more will be able
to afford - until we see micro generation occurring at most houses.
Power plants will still be required to supplement, and for industry, but
a large percent can be produced this way. Point is, that at first the
cost is almost unreachable for most, but further use will bring it in
for all, and for the betterment of the world. If as much money were
subsidized into solar as they use for nuclear, coal (and the war) etc it
wouldn't be too long before we all had collectors on our houses.
Hakan,
The price depends on volume purchased and it doesn't make much
sense.
Distilled water costs 60 cents to 1.50 for a gallon depending on brand.
1/2
liter bottled water costs 1 dollar, but at the same store I can buy 1
gallon
of the same brand for .80 cents. I just have to walk down the isle
instead
of grabing it at the checkout counter. Then you can buy filtered water
for
as cheap as 30 cents a gallon. At least that's the local grocery store
here
in Louisiana, USA
So if you buy water by the 1/2 liter it is more expensive then gas,
but
gallon by gallon it's 1/3rd the price or cheaper.
Logan Vilas
Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency
>
> David,
>
> I do not understand why it is silly to want to know the facts about
> the following,
>
> Jeromie Reeves wrote:
>
>>Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap
>>fuel as I pay WAY
>>more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water.
>>
>>Jeromie
>>
>>Andrew Netherton wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment
>>>if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our
>>>cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.
>>>
>>>Andrew Netherton
>
> I live in Europe and we pay WAY more for the fuel than bottled water.
>
> Hakan
>
>
> At 22:44 09/03/2006, you wrote:
>>Hakan Falk wrote:
>> > That means that bottled water is more expensive than gasoline, as I
>> > understand,
>> >
>>
<http://www.bairdpetro.com/gasoline_prices/index.htm>http://www.bairdpet
ro.com/gasoline_prices/index.htm
>> > @ $1.453 per gallon.
>> >
>> > So, what was wrong with the original statement?
>> > Nothing as I understand it.
>> >
>>
>>This is just silly.
>>
>>People want to make a point that gasoline is cheap in the US so they
>>come up with something that makes it sound cheaper than water.
>>
>>It's not enough that we're going to compare gasoline, an industrial
>>fuel, to food quality water that's packaged for individual
consumption.
>>
>>Now we're going to compare the industrial, bought in large dollar
>>quantities, price of gasoline without any kind of road or sales tax to
>>water packaged for individual consumption with any and all applicable
>>taxes applied.
>>
>>If you really want to compare the price of gasoline to water, how
about
>>using the price of water from the water company? Oh, right, it's
>>because they charge cents per cubic foot and all of a sudden our
>>comparison looks silly.
>>
>>
>>Gasoline IS cheap in the US. It's not highly taxed compared to the
rest
>>of the world, and it doesn't include any of the external costs which
>>might double or triple the price. It doesn't include the costs of its
>>use (global warming, pollution, health side-effects), the costs of
it's
>>production (pollution, economic and social policies), or its
procurement
>>(military intervention, social and economic policies).
>>
>>Rather than dredging up platitudes about it being "cheaper than water"
>>which just IMHO make people look silly , could we please talk about
its
>>real costs?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>--- David
>>
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>>
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>
>
>
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