Sorry, I thought the question was about personal use vehicles (e.g., cars, light trucks).
In the heavy vehicle category, we do have some North American contenders. Mack Trucks has a Class 8 hybrid prototype. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/09/mack_trucks_dis.html ISE Corporation has put their hybrid drives into Norcals, Kenworths and Peterbuilts. Not production items, as far as I know. http://www.isecorp.com/gallery/album12 ISE Corp propaganda. http://www.isecorp.com/ Their diesel-hybrids, specifically: http://www.isecorp.com/ise_products_services/diesel_hybrid_drive_system/ CalStart actually sponsors a Hybrid Truck Users Forum, and I gather they have a significant number of one-offs in various categories. I think the EPRI Ford F-550 hybrid trouble truck is a pretty sweet application. The DaimlerChryser Sprinter hybrid prototypes look kind of wimpy by comparison. These are gas-electric only so far in the U.S., but diesel-electric are being tested in Europe, and could be available by special order (in 2009 or later when DC might allow them to be sold). New Flyer (Winnipeg, Manitoba) produces a diesel-electric hybrid passenger bus, usually based on the GM-Allison package. Orion (Mississauga Ontario - absorbed into DaimlerChrysler in 2000) also produces a diesel-electric hybrid bus. BAE Systems drive package. There was some good coverage on the transit system hybrids at the EDTA conference in Vancouver last December. Other than the all-electric rail systems, virtually all rail locomotives produced in North America are diesel-electric drive. Then we get into some serious equipment, like Euclid R260 built here in Ontario. For those of you that think a Hummer just isn't enough truck, this might fit your needs. Dual in-wheel electric motors for torque, and a decent Detroit Diesel to turn the alternator. Popular Mechanics review of the R260 Pick-up. http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/auto_technology/1266761.html You might have to widen the driveway. If we move from shore to sea, there are plenty of diesel-electric submarines still in service, and the Queen Elizabeth II weighs in at 37,000 tons displacement, with electric drive and nine diesel engines to turn the alternators. Darryl AltEnergyNetwork wrote: > Hi Darryl, > here is one. > regards > tallex > > > New hybrid technology for heavy vehicles unveiled > > < > http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060311/AUTO01/603110345/1148 > > > > >> -------Original Message------- >> From: Darryl McMahon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency >> Sent: 11 Mar '06 16:39 >> >> To my knowledge there are no hybrid diesels available in North America. >> Nor any announced for the 2007 model year (among 23 entries). This >> despite the fact that all the PNGV demonstration vehicles being >> diesel-electric hybrids. Car makers are generally convinced diesels are >> taboo in North America. Definitely a hard sell in California, the >> largest single market and leader on environmental automotive technology. >> >> I'm not following Europe as closely, but they don't seem as keen on >> hybrids in general, preferring efficient diesels (e.g., Smart, several >> VW models, etc.) >> >> I gather the Japanese are also passing on diesel hybrids, but are >> pursuing more aggressively-EV gasoline-electric hybrids. >> >> Alas, my electric-diesel hybrid is still awaiting a controller >> fix/upgrade before we can do some real-world energy-consumption testing >> to size the diesel gen-set. >> >> Darryl >> >> Kenji James Fuse wrote: >> > Does anybody have any info on hydrid diesels in North America? >> > >> > My friend is interestd in the idea and would probably buy one, but we >> > can't find anything on the market. Aren't passenger car diesel hybrids up >> > and running in Europe? >> > >> > Kenji Fuse >> > >> > On Fri, 10 Mar 2006, MH wrote: >> > >> > >> >>I was listening to a radio program about Hybrid cars. >> >> The two state of WI dealerships mentioned dealership >> >> battery replacement costs were decreasing to US$3000 >> >> and they figured they might reach US$1500 as new >> >> models hit the road over the coming years. >> >> >> >> They talked about battery warranty and they figured >> >> they'd last 200,000 miles. I've had gasoline cars >> >> go 240,000 miles before rebuilding the engine, trany >> >> or differential exceeding the manufacture warranty. >> >> >> >> Something else they said about the Honda and Toyota >> >> were they could continue to run without the battery >> >> pack but with reduced fuel efficiency in the city. >> >> >> >> Resale value is still quite high for >> >> hybrids and diesels around my area >> >> although I'm having difficulty finding >> >> my older Geo Metro's but their around. >> >> >> >> I wouldn't mind a diesel or a E85 hybrid >> >> in a fuel efficient version for local use. >> >> I prefer my bicycle and limit my >> >> internal combustion use when needed. >> >> >> >> Thank you Mark. >> >> Enjoyed reading your thoughts. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Thompson, Mark L. (PNB R&D) wrote: >> >> >> >>>I don't how anyone can justify a Hybrid over a diesel. >> >>> >> >>>The financial numbers just don't work. >> >>> >> >>>My VW TDI gets (243K mile so far) >> >>> 45 mpg @ City Driving >> >>> 55 mpg @ 60 mph >> >>> 50 mpg @ 75 mph >> >>> >> >>> My cost is (City) $2.60/45 = 5.8 cents a mile (not including >> >>>normal maintenance) >> >>> My cost is (Freeway) $2.60/55 = 4.7 cents a mile (not including >> >>>normal maintenance) >> >>> Average 5.25 cents a mile (50/50 driving) >> >>> >> >>>My neighbors Prius gets >> >>> 55 mpg @ City Driving >> >>> 51 mpg @ 60 mph >> >>> >> >>> Cost is (City) $2.35/60 = 3.9 cents a mile (not including >> >>>normal maintenance) >> >>> Cost is (Freeway) $2.35/51 = 4.6 cents a mile (not including >> >>>normal maintenance) >> >>> Average 4.25 cents a mile (50/50 driving) >> >>> Plus Battery Deprecation >> >>> 8 year/100k miles/$7000 >> >>> $7000/100K = 7 cents/mile >> >>> >> >>> Total = 4.25 + 7.00 = 11.25 Cents/Miles >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>Converted to French fuel prices and Taxes: >> >>>http://www.day-tripper.net/pricespetrol.html >> >>>Diesel = 1.036 euro/Liter >> >>>Petro(95) = 1.209 euro/Liter >> >>> >> >>>Converted (1.19E/usd and 3.79 lt/gal) >> >>>Diesel = 1.036 * 1.19 * 3.79 = $4.67/gal >> >>>Petro = 1.209 * 1.19 * 3.79 = $5.45/gal >> >>> >> >>>My VW TDI gets (243K mile so far) >> >>> 45 mpg @ City Driving >> >>> 55 mpg @ 60 mph >> >>> 50 mpg @ 75 mph >> >>> >> >>> My cost is (City) $4.67/45 = 10.4 cents a mile (not including >> >>>normal maintenance) >> >>> My cost is (Freeway) $4.67/55 = 8.5 cents a mile (not including >> >>>normal maintenance) >> >>> Average 9.45 cents a mile (50/50 driving) >> >>> >> >>>My neighbors Prius gets >> >>> 55 mpg @ City Driving >> >>> 51 mpg @ 60 mph >> >>> >> >>> Cost is (City) $5.45/60 = 9.0 cents a mile (not including >> >>>normal maintenance) >> >>> Cost is (Freeway) $5.45/51 = 10.7 cents a mile (not including >> >>>normal maintenance) >> >>> Average 9.85 cents a mile (50/50 driving) >> >>> Plus Battery Deprecation >> >>> 8 year/100k miles/$7000/19%vat = $8330 >> >>> $8330/100K = 8.3 cents/mile >> >>> >> >>> Total = 9.85 + 8.30 = 18.15 Cents/Miles >> >>> >> >>>In the US and Europe a diesel is about 1/2 the operating cost of a >> >>>hybrid. >> >>> >> >>>Another thing to consider is maintenance/repair and life expectancy. >> >>>My last VW diesel Died a honable death at 476,000 miles. >> >>>My current one is at 243,000 miles and still running strong. >> >>>My guess is if you can get 200K-250K out of a hybrid gas engine you are >> >>>doing good. >> >>> >> >>>Also working on diesel is relatively straight forward. Will have to say >> >>>VW has coupled the computer to the engine quite tightly. It make for >> >>>interesting trouble shooting when things are not working perfectly. >> >>> >> >>>Mark >> >>> >> >>>Andrew Netherton wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>>I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment >> >>>>if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our >> >>>>cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America. >> >>>> >> >>>>Andrew Netherton >> >>>> -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
