--- Ryan Pope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From what I remember from my botany courses,
> plant leaves are also very
> tightly regulated to reduce water loss. A leaf is
> basically a large, flat
> surface coursing with fluid; exactly what you would
> do to promote
> evaporation. To slow evap., most leaves have
> passive pores that close in
> dry conditions as well as a secreted waxy surface.
> If the FFA were
> disrupting the waxy surface or causing the pores to
> open or both, you would
> get rapid fluid loss, browning, wilting, etc., but
> the plant would repair
> and recover in a short time.
>
> Gooeyness...hmmm...surface gooeyness? Or the
> whole leaf is a spongey
> mess? Maybe the waxy seal balling up like oil drops
> in water?
>
> Ryan
>
>
> >From: "Thomas Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] FFA's as Weed Killer
> >Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 14:25:47 -0400
> >
> >Bob,
> > In response to my note: "One day later
> ~24hrs, the leaves were
> >browning
> >and wilted."
> > You wrote:
> >" I sure would like to see some references on the
> mechanism of this
> >effect."
> >
> > I wonder if the FFAs are disrupting the
> structure of cell membranes.
> >All cell membranes are phospholipid bilayers with
> hydrophobic fatty acids
> >pointing inward towards each other and away from
> water. The hydrophilic
> >phosphates are on the inner and outer surfaces
> interacting w. water.
> >Replace
> >water w.FFAs and this structure could be
> compromised.
> > After 24 hrs the leaves are more than wilted,
> they are gooey (for lack
> >of a better word).
> > I'd be interested in knowing the mechanism as
> well. I dug up a few
> >treated dandelions 3 - 4 days after treatment. The
> roots seemed fine. This
> >morning, a week after treatment, some of the
> sprayed plants are sprouting
> >new leaves and the sickly-looking dandelions have
> sent up new flowers. The
> >effect does not seem to be systemic.
> >I like that. It seems very effective against a
> variety of "weeds" that lack
> >tap roots or runners.
> >
> Tom
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
> >Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 11:49 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] FFA's as Weed Killer
> >
> >
> >
> >Howdy
> >
> >Thomas Kelly wrote:
> > > Hi Bob,
> > > What do you mean "a dilute solution"? I
> sprayed the FFAs, full
> > > strength, on the leaves of some "weeds".
> >
> >I guess my assumption was wrong- when I recover
> ffa's I get a very
> >viscous liquid which would be hard to spray. but
> then my wvo is about
> >half saturated fat.
> >
> >
> > > One day later ~24hrs, the leaves were browning
> and wilted.
> >
> >I think todd also mentioned such an effect. I sure
> would like to see
> >some references on the mechanism of this effect.
> >
> > > How would I test the pH of FFAs? I use wide
> range pH paper to test
> >my
> > > wash water. I don't think they'll work on FFAs.
> >
> >try taking a gram or so of your ffa's and add it to
> about 100ml water.
> >Free fatty acids will not dissolve well and should
> not change the pH
> >paper reading. I just tried it with a sample of
> oleic acid. pH of the
> >solution/emulsion was unchanged after adding the
> oleic acid.
> >
> >
> > > It appears as though some of the weeds I
> sprayed last week are
> > > sending
> > > up new shoots.
> >
> >I'll try spraying some oleic acid on a plant or two
> (as soon as it quits
> >raining) and see what happens.
> >
> >
> > >
> Tom
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 11:34 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] FFA's as Weed Killer
> > >
> > >
> > > howdy Thomas
> > >
> > > I am a little surprised that a dilute solution
> of ffa's would have any
> > > impact on plant life over a 24 hour period. My
> guess is that your
> > > solution contains more than ffa's. What is the
> pH ? how about total
> > > dissolved solids, ie salts ? Do you have any
> idea of the concentration
> > > of the ffa (in water I assume)?
> > >
> > > Thomas Kelly wrote:
> > >> I've been gardening for over 30 years by
> essentially "building dirt"
> > >> and caring for my plants from the ground up.
> > >> I've been know to chop off a weed's head now
> and again or yank them
> >from
> > >> the ground. I've squished "bugs" by the
> thousands and lured others to
> > >> deadly traps. I've never used a spray that has
> any real obvious results
> > >> (dead insects or "weeds").
> > >> I've been splitting my glycerine co-product
> into FFA's, potassium
> > >> (and some sodium) phosphate, and crude
> glycerine.
> > >> Yesterday I sprayed FFA's on some weeds in
> an area of the garden
> >that
> > >> hasn't been turned yet. Today they appear to be
> dying. It didn't seem
> >to
> > >> discriminate ... dandelions, wild mustard,
> plantain, grass .... all
> > >> withering.
> > >> I'm a bit taken back. The sprays I concoct
> from chives, peppers,
> > >> mulberry leaves etc. are intended to
> repel/discourage pests. I don't
> >see
> > >> any corpses. It's more a matter of faith or
> delusion that they are
> > >> working ... I don't care which. Weeds involve
> physical removal and
> > >> discouragement with thick mulch.
> > >> The "weeds" sprayed w. FFA's appear to be
> in serious trouble only
> > >> 24 hrs after spraying. What is the mechanism of
> FFA action on plants?
> > >> Does it act on the lipid component of the cell
> membranes? Is it
> >systemic
> > >> or just act on the point of contact - the
> leaves. If it only acts on
> >the
> > >> leaves, will new shoots be sent up?
> > >> If FFA's are non-toxic, biodegradable, and
> effective weed killers,
> > >> it would be very good news to an aging gardener
> who turns each section
> > >> of the garden by hand, meticulously picking out
> the weeds. I don't mind
> > >> the turning, countless tons of compost over the
> years has turned
> >shallow
>
=== message truncated ===>
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hi,
pouring glycerine on the leaves kills.
glycerine is alkaline; so, alkalinity kills leaves.
Further, methyl ester kills leaves.
The best weed killer;
Follow the ingredients;
glycerine left over from your biodiesel 2parts
sodium ethanoate 1part
fox
>
>
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