>> forget everything there
Ok, now what? Appal Energy wrote: >Yo dee ho Keith, > > > >>This offlist stuff these folks do here happens especially >>if anyone mentions Aleks's Foolproof acid-base method, >>they really hate Aleks, though they've never encountered >>him in any way. He's at Journey to Forever but they're not, >>you see. (They hate Todd Swearingen too.) >> >> > >"Sniffle..., smurf..., snif..., huckhhhh....." >My feelings are oh so hurt. > > > >>As girl Mark and Ginny in Denver so helpfully pointed out, >>forget everything there and start over. >> >> > >Doh!!! And then the self-appointed expert, at least expert enough as to >declare others less than capable - that would be the poor dear Ginny in Denver >- just couldn't seem to identify how or where she had fouled up a five gallon >batch and started asking for help from anyone who had some insight. > >Had she not forgotten everything she had read at JTF (as she's instructed >everyone else to do) it's rather doubtful that the dear would have found >herself in midst of such a problem without a clue as to how to extract herself. > >Oh well. People pick their own poison. > >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg37170.html > >I'd all but forgotten dear Mr. Legge. I still can't forgive myself for outing >him (not!) and his nom de plume. Funny that. I don't think he's ever forgiven >me either...., sniff..., smurf..., snuffle..., snarf..... > >Anyhow, thanks for the stroll down memory lane Keith. A nice, tidy, compressed >nutshell of a package of destruction that's really screwed a lot of people >that could have been doing a lot of good. Glad you still take some time to >check the bilge pumps and make sure the sewage and it's rats don't decimate >the entire grassroots biodiesel sector. > >Now if you'll forgive me, I'm headed to the pantry for a pint of black and tan >and then I'm off to fake another 325 gallons of acid/base biodiesel..., you >know..., Aleks' method that "doesn't work." > >Todd Swearingen > > > > > > >Keith Addison wrote: > > > >>Please note the bit at the end: >> >>"No further discussion please. As I said, we keep it away unless it >>needs saying, now it's said, so leave it, or it will only cause >>confusion and distraction, as intended." >> >>------ >> >>Hello Jason >> >> >> >> >> >>>they are discussing the sugar catalyst in detail at >>>http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/419605551/m/9771067631/p/1 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Sure they are, but if a person wanders in there the first thing that >>hits them is this: >> >> >> >> >> >>>Saint Tilly, DD; KE; Sewer Rat (by appointment) >>> >>>"I didn't have to fiddle with it, it worked just fine, >>>but I fiddled with it anyway and now it works even finer" >>>Keith Addison explaining his cosmic theory of the Foolproof Disaster >>> >>> >>> >>> >>With ne'er a link to the original: >>http://snipurl.com/q2lz >>Re: [Biofuel] acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs >> >>Nor to this, for instance: >>http://snipurl.com/q210 >>[Biofuel] Water from Acid process >> >>And nobody says "er...": >>http://snipurl.com/pie8 >>[Biofuel] Biodiesel test results >> >>99.09% completion says the GC, way better than standard spec. So >>what's the disaster? This: "It doesn't work." Uh-huh. But I'll come >>back to that. >> >>This is the barest tip of an iceberg, scratch it a bit and see what happens. >> >>Like what's with the "Sewer Rat (by appointment)" bit? >> >>A couple of days ago some mud got slung at the Biofuel list in a >>discussion at "wastewatts", the yahoo group moderated by Steve >>Spence, Dir., Green Trust. Stuff like this: >> >>"It can have a certain view and the some long time members like >>everyone to march to a similar tune or your read the riot act. " >> >>"The list owner ( Keith ), can not handle the truth, because it hurts to >>much." >> >>"... plenty of people have been banned because they disagreed with >>certain people on the list, and couldn't back up their disagreement >>with the "proper" sources." >> >>"I would not parrot the "bush is the antichrist" partyline, and I >>wouldn't shut up, so I was banned. But keith will swear that it was >>done in the name of promoting open discussion - how Orwellian." >> >>And so on. >> >>A person named Chris Stratford started ranting that Keith is a racist >>and an anti-Semite and a Nazi and got quite violent: "... if I meet >>them in a dark alley only one of us will walk out... There are a >>bunch of other biodiesel groups, that actually have open debate... >>Keith has a great website, but if it was a choice between saving him >>or the rat from drowning, I will save the rat, and then throw it at >>him." >> >>So this clown at Infopop appoints himself the rat. Well I guess he >>should know, and he's in the right place too. I'm sure the wastewatts >>discussion is all over Infopop with the usual huge glee but I didn't >>bother to check, I never go there unless someone posts a url here. >> >>I received the wastewatts posts as a subscriber but I don't read >>anything there either, someone pointed it out to me. I'd give you the >>link but dear old Steve in all his openness closed the archives >>unless you log in as a member. >> >>These people at wastewatts got booted from the Biofuel list for >>demanding that other people's posts they didn't agree with must be >>censored because they're "off-topic". See the List rules: >>http://snipurl.com/mx7r >> >>People who do this quite often refuse to accept the reason for their >>dismissal, they're already furious anyway and it's so much more >>convenient to think that it's their opinions we "hate" and the >>dismissal was just an excuse while in fact we're really defending the >>evil views they want censored because we agree with them. >> >>This is what happened with Stratford, nearly two years ago. It wasn't >>me who posted the stuff he objected to, I didn't even comment on it, >>and it was just a distraction anyway. But that doesn't bother Chris >>Stratford. He actually said this at wastewatts: "The point is that >>hatred based on lies is evil." Only true thing I've seen him say, but >>he was talking about me and the Biofuel list, not him. >> >>Of course we have all the background on record in the list admin >>archives, so what really happened with all these people isn't just a >>matter of opinion. But it seldom bears much resemblance to what they >>say happened, and the more time passes the more lurid the story gets. >> >>Chris Stratford is an American, he's pro-colonial Zionism, pro-War on >>Terror, pro-Bush. He's not Jewish, he's a Mormon, and apparently he's >>served as a missionary abroad. >> >>Regarding anti-Semitism, this is what the thread he hated at Biofuel led to: >>http://snipurl.com/q22x >>RE: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith >> >>Not exactly anti-Semitic. Give it a read, a lot of people said it's worth it. >> >>The strange thing about Stratford is that was the second time he got >>booted, and for the same reason. After the first time, he admitted >>he'd been wrong, begged to be reinstated and promised to behave >>himself: >> >> >> >> >> >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>Subject: RE: Fwd: FW: Feeling Patriotic? >>>Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:40:56 -0800 >>> >>>I apologize for any comments I made that contributed in any way to a >>>dampening of what topics were being discussed on the biofuel list. If the >>>list owner will deign to reinstate my membership I will refrain from further >>>such conduct, on penalty of banishment. pretty please. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Reluctantly I let him back in. >> >> >> >> >> >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>Subject: thank you >>>Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:39:01 -0800 >>> >>>Thank you very much for allowing me to explain and apologize. Thank you also >>>for giving me a second chance. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>And then he did exactly the same thing again. And got the boot again. >>With the results that we see now. He's ranted like this at other >>lists too, not just wastewatts. The guy's a joke. >> >>He also said this at wastewatts: "Anyway, this is too political for >>this group, exactly what I am decrying about Mr. addison's groups." >> >>Case rests. >> >>See: >>http://snipurl.com/pq34 >>[Biofuel] A little clarification >>Wed Apr 19 2006 >> >>The other one is Greg Harbican, also an American, rightwing, he hates >>Michael Moore and so on, he doesn't really like Bush but he doesn't >>like anybody else either and he disagrees with everyone, even >>himself. He once told someone here who complained about "off-topic >>political BS" that many people see it as relevant to biofuels issues >>and as a result of reading these posts he'd learnt a few things and >>was a little more aware, even if he didn't always agree. But later >>Greg himself complained about all the off-topic political BS. When >>confronted with his earlier statement from the archives he said he >>remembered it but it was "incorrect"!!! He explained that he has a >>bi-polar condition and as a result people have difficulty >>understanding what he means sometimes. LOL! Not that a bi-polar >>condition is funny, but someone who uses it as an excuse for memory >>editing is just being a jerk. We had too many complaints about Greg. >>We put up with him for years but then he posted a mudslinging message >>about the Biofuel list at another list and we removed him from the >>Biofuel list. He knows that's what happened, he even said so. Nothing >>to do with not toeing a "bush is the antichrist" partyline. He's just >>another liar. >> >>Meanwhile, back at the mudstorm at the wastewatts group, in reply to >>the question about oil types that got derailed by the hate stuff, >>someone posted some information from Journey to Forever and a link to >>more of it, to which someone else responded: "Very thorough article. >>Nice find!" >> >>But after all the mudslinging about Nazis and so on the person who'd >>posted the JtF piece asked: "Perhaps someone would like to post >>alternate links to other, more neutral websites and resources for >>biofuel users?" >> >>She was told: "Do try the Infopop forum And look at the biodiesel >>discussion groups there. It is far more relevent and useful that the >>old JTF biofuels peculiar politoco pretensions." >> >>Steve Spence stood back and let it all happen, but then list members >>here have written to him in the past complaining about his stirring >>up slander himself at wastewatts against the Biofuel list. (I advised >>them not to bother.) >> >>Mission accomplished, Steve wagged his finger at everyone and ended >>the topic, but it seems only after the wastewatts list owner called >>him to order. >> >>Steve Spence's father is a rightwing fundamentalist evangelical >>Baptist Christian preacher, and Steve gets his politics from the >>pulpit. He used to be a member here too but he stormed out in fury - >>twice! - because he couldn't take what people were saying about >>Bushco and no WMDs or whatever but he didn't have any >>counter-arguments except that he hated it. He's welcome to think >>whatever he likes but it's a pity he can't be more honest about it >>and stop protesting so loudly after all this time (also two years). >>Not that it matters much. >> >>The official sewer rat at Infopop and some other folks from there >>lurk around here at the Biofuel list archives like, well, like sewer >>rats, sniffing about and telling the same sort of stuff offlist to >>new members and inviting them to Infopop. List members complain about >>it. Here's one, we have quite a few, not only from this one, similar >>stuff from the Appleseed Queen and so on, whose biodiesel book Joe >>Street didn't seem to like much: >> >> >> >> >> >>>>Please be aware that the vast majority of the biodiesel world holds >>>>Keith Addison and his Journey to Forever site in total contempt. >>>>Keith Addison is a sick old man who begs for money on his Journey >>>>to Forever site, supposedly to help the poor and needy but he >>>>actually uses the money donated to him for his day to day expenses. >>>>The Journey to Forever site is Keith's "Retirement income", >>>>is vastly out of date, and contains inaccurate and phony biodiesel >>>>information. >>>> >>>>If you are more interested in making biodiesel that listening to a >>>>Psychotic old man rant about the evils of the world, I suggest you >>>>join the Infopop biodiesel website at >>>>http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751 >>>> >>>>Tell them a Kindly Elf sent you. >>>> >>>>Squire Tilly KE >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>Here's another one: >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>From: "girl Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>To: <zzz> >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 5:43 AM >>>>>Subject: Biofuel post >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Hi there, >>>>>> >>>>>>I noticed your'e on your way to being yelled at by Keith Addison- this >>>>>>happens occasionally as the man is crazy as a bat. >>>>>> >>>>>>Many things he posts are considered controversial or, quite simply, 'crap' >>>>>>by the rest of the biodiesel world. One such piece of info is the >>>>>>so-called quality test that he linked you to. It's been completely >>>>>>debunked as garbage by everyone else but he continues to defend it. he >>>>>>also used to defend pH testing of biodiesel but now seems to have changed >>>>>>his mind. >>>>>> >>>>>>anyway... >>>>>> >>>>>>you'd be much better off at these otehr forum which are much better at the >>>>>>'scientific method' : >>>>>> >>>>>>http://biodiesel.infopop.cc >>>>>>www.groups.yahoo.com/group/biodieselbasics >>>>>> >>>>>>www.biodieselnow.com >>>>>> >>>>>>Here's a website we're writing, with peer-review of information: >>>>>> >>>>>>www.biodieselcommunity.org >>>>>> >>>>>>take care and good luck! >>>>>> >>>>>>Mark >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>Her problem, once you blow away all the smoke (it's a LOT of smoke!), >>is that she'd said two things about washing biodiesel that were >>completely contradictory and she refused to explain it. >> >>Her "Bubblewashing 101" article was posted at Journey to Forever, and >>it said this: >> >> >> >> >> >>>"The bad news is that poor quality biodiesel can emulsify just from >>>the agitation of bubblewashing. The good news is that it's easy to >>>make good biodiesel. Even with problematic biodiesel, you can >>>predict emulsification in a simple "wash test", take steps to avoid >>>it, and easily fix it if it does happen. The even better news is >>>that bubblewashing emulsification isn't a problem for average >>>well-made homebrew -- you should be able to use even nasty >>>restaurant oil and still easily make fuel that won't emulsify under >>>bubblewash conditions... >>> >>>"Some people use a super-gentle "mist washing" method to take >>>vigorous agitation out of the picture. To me it seems that this >>>masks the real problem -- which isn't agitation, it's poor fuel >>>quality. I'd rather make sure I've produced fuel that contains less >>>soap and less emulsifying monoglycerides and diglycerides (MG and >>>DG), instead of decreasing the agitation to "ease washing". The >>>agitation produced by standard bubblewashing isn't very strong, an >>>average homebrew fuel should be able to handle it without >>>emulsifying." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Then came her Appleseed reactor, which was also at Journey to Forever. >> >>Then Girl Mark answered a question here at the list about washing: >> >> >> >> >> >>>either mistwash or bubblewash works fine for big batches, but the same >>>rules apply as for small batches- more water is needed for misting and >>>less emulsification happens, much less water is needed for >>>bubblewashing but more chance of emulsification can take place. >>> >>>I actually use both now- mist for a few gallons (for a small 42 gallon >>>batch I mist for 4 gallons) and then I bubblewash with good use of >>>water recycling during bubblewashing. In my 350 gallon wash tank, my >>>small aquarium air pump gives fine results, but not all of the air >>>pumps might be able to handle such large batches. it looks like a tiny >>>amount of bubbles are rising but it works really well- less >>>emulsification than the same air pump agitating up a smaller batch. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Emulsification with an aquarium air-pump in a 350 gallon wash tank? >> >>That's what the monster smokescreen was about, along with a lot of >>mudslinging, including at other lists. >> >>In spite of the smoke, it emerged that the Appleseed doesn't work too >>well, the pump is too small, the process doesn't complete, you get an >>emulsion. Also the bottom drain plumbing makes separation difficult >>and you'll probably get some by-product in the wash. >> >>But Girl Mark literally wouldn't hear of it, and since it obviously >>wasn't going to get fixed, out went the Appleseed, out went >>Bubblewashing 101, and before long, out went Mark. >> >>Now she hangs around with Tilly at Infopop, fights with Josh Tickell, >>lurks around here, badmouths JtF and flogs her book and her >>Appleseeds and so on - the "Open Source Reactor" she calls it, but it >>doesn't seem to have developed a lot in 18 months, same pump, same >>plumbing. >>http://girlmark.com/ >> >>Bubblewashing 101 features at the allegedly peer-reviewed >>www.biodieselcommunity.org now, somewhat watered down, so to speak, >>but it's still completely at odds with what she said here. She >>doesn't say it's easy to make good biodiesel now, but she still says >>emulsions are easily avoided. So why doesn't she avoid them then? So >>much for the "scientific method". Appleseed crappleseed. >> >>This is what she said a couple of years ago: >> >>"Infopop is somewhat dominated by people with a different approach >>than I take - they tend to have an anti-quality control agenda... a >>persistent feud with proponents of journeytoforever's methods (the >>pro-quality camp which I belong to), for reasons that have little to >>do with biodiesel." - Maria "Mark" Alovert, "Biodiesel Homebrew >>Guide", Version 9 - May 8, 2004 >> >>This offlist stuff these folks do here happens especially if anyone >>mentions Aleks's Foolproof acid-base method, they really hate Aleks, >>though they've never encountered him in any way. He's at Journey to >>Forever but they're not, you see. (They hate Todd Swearingen too.) >> >>If there's any "Foolproof disaster" to weigh against all the people >>all over the world who use the acid-base method with good results and >>keep telling us about it, including Biofuel list members, it's that >>other people have been put off trying a superior method which uses >>less chemicals and produces less waste by these idiots who don't use >>any acid-base process themselves and spend a lot of time discussing >>super-gentle mist-washing techniques and how to break emulsions at >>some or another branch of the Church of the Uncompleted Reaction. >> >>About the only place where the acid-base method can be discussed >>sensibly without being shouted down by a bunch of noisy hooligans is >>here. It happened again at Anton Berteaux's Burnveggies group >>recently, and there was a wastewatts-style fuss at the Biodiesel >>Yahoo group last week: >> >> >> >> >> >>>I started biodiesel investigation on my own by going to Journeys to Forever. >>>As girl Mark and Ginny in Denver so helpfully pointed out, forget everything >>>there and start over. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>When someone objected, his post was deleted by the moderator and he >>was told not to make trouble. >> >>It's easy to be destructive, it doesn't take any talent, and it only >>takes one or two people to wreck a good list. >> >>What started all this hate stuff with Tilly at Infopop? Nothing. >>Seriously, nothing. A perceived insult four years ago that nobody >>else could see except Tilly, he got furious and went berserk and it's >>raged on ever since, joined later by the off-topic guys and so on, on >>the basis of my enemy's enemy is my friend. >> >>That makes for some strange bedfellows. The person who did post the >>anti-Zionist stuff Chris Stratford objected to, an obsessed person >>named Luc, who definitely is anti-Semitic, got furious with me when I >>refused to allow him to post any more anti-Jewish crap (and >>anti-feminism crap and anti-gay crap) and stormed out, to join the >>hate group at Infopop, where he hangs out with Girl Mark and so on - >>the very people Stratford recommends if you want a good list with >>open debate. What a bunch of bananas. They really deserve each other. >> >>Tilly the appointed Sewer Rat and his chums also accuse me of being a >>wanted criminal, an international fugitive from justice with warrants >>out for my arrest in five countries, according to Interpol they say, >>of making a fraudulent US$350,000 a year out of JtF donations >>(ROFL!!!!), of plagiarism and stealing the information at Journey to >>Forever from the Infopop group, often of racism (I'm a South >>African), they tell people I'm dying of AIDS, and I'm sure there's >>more but I can't remember what else offhand. Can't see any caps there >>that I could wear, so why would I care? It's got nothing to do with >>me or JtF or the Biofuel list or Aleks or Todd if some people can't >>keep their inner demons to themselves. >> >>So. Nothing unusual about all this, it goes on all the time, if not >>at wastewatts then at one of the other flake groups (they tend to >>spawn a lot), and always at Infopop. Just giving you a sample. >> >>Here's some more about the Infopop group - it's about quality and no >>quality, worth a read for its own sake: >>http://snipurl.com/q248 >>Re: [biofuel] Bashing biodiesel (esp. homebrew) online >> >>The jeers group loses no opportunity to spread their message, they'll >>use any platform they can get at, they've wrecked a number of mailing >>lists in the doing. We do everything to keep the whole non-issue >>away, I've never used JtF or the list as a platform that way. If you >>do find anything about it here, like this now, it's in response and >>then I cut it short. Anything at JtF about it is there for it's >>information content, what people say about mist-washing for instance. >>Beyond that it's just a distraction. >> >>All this stuff would be very interesting if only it weren't so >>boring, and sort of devoid of light. The only interesting aspect >>might be what effect it has on us. The rather interesting answer is, >>none. No effect. Three years of hate-flinging has simply bounced off. >>Also not just an opinion, that's what all the traffic data and the >>feedback say. Eg: >> >>http://snipurl.com/q26x >>biodiesel - Google Search >> >>http://snipurl.com/q26p >>biodiesel mailing list - Google Search >> >>(Actually that's very annoying! It's NOT a biodiesel mailing list!) >> >>Ranking.com ranks traffic at the 900,000 Most Visited and Popular Web >>Sites, and it currently ranks JtF at #3 in its category of >>Education/Organizations, up from #5 a year ago and #8 two years ago. >>JtF ranks at #18,175 among all web sites, up from #43,542 eight >>months ago and #64,433 two years ago. It has 24,397 links pointing to >>it from other sites. In the past year JtF's monthly site traffic grew >>by 155% and the page visits total grew by 85%, and the starting >>figures weren't low. >> >>I'm not too interested in "yield" data like this though, we're not >>competing with anyone, we don't promote JtF or the Biofuel list. The >>only real way to promote an Internet resource is to provide >>high-quality content. So the feedback is more interesting than the >>data, it gives us a glimpse of the real product. There's lots of >>feedback, and it's very encouraging. >> >>Either way, no discernible damage by jeering. It's only damaging >>truths that could hurt us and there aren't any. >> >>What I've said about the jeer freaks before is that this stuff is >>easily checked, anyone with half a brain can work it out for himself >>soon enough, and if not, what does it matter? After all, do you want >>those people here? >> >>Tilly, John Tillman, doesn't care what he says, the next he'll deny >>it and say it again the day after. He's a thief, he stole his Dr >>Pepper bottle crap from Greg Yohn, the viscosimeter from Aleks Kac >>(they're also at the allegedly peer-reviewed >>www.biodieselcommunity.org). He spawns scores of clones, imposters >>that infiltrate groups to create the impression of support for their >>hero, but he's not too good at it and makes mistakes: "Hey Tilly, >>that's some great information you just posted!" - signed Tilly. LOL! >>Nobody ever crosses Tilly at Infopop because he's so vicious when he >>doesn't get his way. That was the insult that never happened - I >>failed to beg to be allowed to upload his Dr Pepper stuff at Journey >>to Forever, he didn't get his 15 minutes, and he's been hurling >>hatred ever since. The "Kindly Elf" turns out to be a thoroughly >>nasty little brat, aged 60. >> >>I don't take any notice. If I come across it I take note, but no notice. >> >>Some people find this all very disturbing. My point is that it's not >>very disturbing, it's just ugly. But people need to know about it, or >>they'll be misled. >> >>So if you're going to send people to Infopop you should know where >>you're sending them. Go ahead, just wear a diving suit (not a >>wetsuit!). >> >>No further discussion needed please. As I said, we keep it away >>unless it needs saying, now it's said, so leave it, or it will only >>cause confusion and distraction, as intended. >> >> >> >> >> >>>>To my knowledge Keith tries to give the list a chance to respond to >>>>every post and it's understood (IMO) that members who have nothing >>>>but antagonism to offer, are removed. This is usually done with all >>>>the transparency he can afford. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>- Mike Redler >>http://snipurl.com/pq34 >>[Biofuel] A little clarification >> >>There's nothing more worth saying anyway, it's just more of the same >>and it doesn't go anywhere. This all checks out, you can check it for >>yourself if you want to. The devil's in the detail though, as ever >>with smokescreens, it takes patience. Whatever, JtF, the Biofuel >>list, Todd, Aleks and I don't have to prove anything. >> >>It was about time for an archives update on all this rubbish anyway, >>with any luck I won't have to do it again for another year or two, or >>never. >> >>What a lark is running the Biofuel list. I suppose it's all a part of >>Life's Great Golden Tapestry. Actually in quite a lot of ways it's >>just like running a newspaper, and that's a real buzz, warts like >>this one and all. >> >>Peace. >> >>Keith Addison >>Journey to Forever >>KYOTO Pref., Japan >>http://journeytoforever.org/ >>Biofuel list owner >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>if i am reading these people's experiences right, the catalyst is made by >>>partially breaking down a sugar molecule by heating it, and then introducing >>>an acid (H2SO4). this creates a "nanobot" of sorts by attatching the acidic >>>molecules to the pyrolized sugar near a basic branch, giving us the >>>acid/base process on an infinitely small scale repeated trillions of times >>>per second, and barely depleting the catalyst (theyre still debating useful >>>lifespans of the material). i cannot vouch for any of these statements as >>>true or false, but with all the research going on around the subject, and >>>the fact that these people have attempted it, then it may have an extreme >>>value if not interest. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuel mailing list >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
