I'll just embed my replies below, as there are alot of little short answers.
>On 5/17/06, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>Hello Ryan >> >> > I'm building the processsor and running test batches >> >simultaniously so I can shift to large scale as fast as possible. >> >>You said you started the wrong way round: Absolutely true. But new guys don't see JtF first, they see FuelMeister or somebody similar; who want to sell something to them. >> >> >Which is demonstrated by the fact that I have my processor just >> >about build and haven't done a single small batch yet...I'm a rookie. >> Thought I had it build, according to "Crappleseed", as you put it, ideas. I've made changes based on JtF and my experience thus far. Mostly in the addition of a vacuum/compressor pump to fill and purge the main reactor vessel. Their waste water pump sucks...not in the good way. Will not, not, not EVERY prime itself. >>Well, that's what you said, we said it was the wrong way round: >> >>"Where do I start? -- Start with the process, NOT with the processor. >>The processor comes later." >>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start >> >>"When you're confident that you can get good results every time, even >>using oil from different sources, then it's time to scale up the >>process to provide your fuel needs. Now that you have a feel for the >>process and know what to expect, you'll have a much better idea of >>what sort of processor you want than if you'd started off building >>the processor (as many do) rather than learning the process first." >>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#moving All true, and should be made to be Google hit #1 whenever "Biodiesel" is searched for, but its not, so new guys will continue to start with a processor because search engine results start with a processor. Want to change that? Get JtF to the top of the list. >> >> >I can't reclaim my investment with small batches. >> >>Your investment? I'm quite interested in that, just at the moment. >>People are always asking about costs. Just hardware I don't already have; only money I actually spend. Water heater, inductor tank, plumbing, vacuum/compressor pump, beakers, graduated cylinders. The chemical supplies would go into the cost/gallon of biofuel that offsets the cost/gallon of the OPEC fuel. >> >>What are you costing in your investment? The cost of the processor, >>let's see, that was only two 60-litre batches, it took two days, or a >>few hours over a couple of days. >> >>Building it took much longer, I'd never built such a thing before, I have. So far, I see nothing I've built wrong that needs to be charged, just tweaked (referrence the vaccum pump again). >>and figuring it all out first took even longer. But I'd learned >>really a lot from people here on the list and I got that for nothing, >>so I don't know how to cost it. True, and this is the ONLY reason my processor has come together so quickly. I've scanned every processor construction idea and have pulled ideas and insights from every one to build I processor I can understand. And I think that's the most important part. There are alot of you running systems I don't follow, so I'm not using your ideas. I need to understand my processor so I can make it work, not just copy somebody else. >The processor works very well >>though >>and now lots of people have built them, Mine has yet to be seen, but because so many have come before me, I have full confidence. >and they also got it for >>nothing. If you took an eco-economist's view (which we'll all have to >>take in the end), economics that can tell a sword from a plowshare, >>you'd have to add all that in too somehow to be realistic about the >>costs. I think that means I must be rich by now because of the free >>processor and so on, and I'm not the only one. But if you take a >>money economist's view, the prevailing one, sad to say, which indeed >>can't tell a sword from a plowshare, it means I'm as poor as a >>churchmouse, and that's the truth of it. Obviously I'm not too good >>at costings, and I end up completely confused about how a person >>would go about getting their investment back. Well, no need to be so >>complicated about it, but it's worth a thought. Here's the bottomline, as I see it, for how I am recuperating my costs. Say I spend $500 to build a processor. Once its running, I'm paying only $1 a gallon to fuel my truck ($0.70 for supplies, $.30 for road tax to my state). Meaning for every gallon I burn, I'm preventing the loss of $2 I would have had to spent to burn that gallon of fuel. To recup. my $500, I only need to burn 250 gallons of my biodiesel in situations where I would have had to purchase OPEC diesel. >> >>Do you cost your time? What do you include? That was about two months >>ago you said you're a rookie. Do you include all the development time >>in the meantime? Would that be just time spent making test batches, >>finding and getting materials and so on? >> >>How about the learning curve, would you cost the time that takes? >>Time spent here, for instance, or at the JtF website Biodiesel >>section. If you do cost it, do you think we should cost it too, the >>ones who provide it all in various ways, including many list members, >>which could end up including you? Where do you draw the line? No, because this isn't a business venture. I'm only reducing my fuel costs, not producing a product to increase my income. If it was for income, I would need to account for my time that could be spent at another job producing income. As I said before, the only thing I count as cost is money that has to flow out of my pocket to build my processor. I perform only a cash flow analysis centered on myself. I am increasing my Cash Flow(Out)(Misc) now to decrease my Cash Flow(Out)(Fuel) later by an amount greater than my initial Cash Flow(Out)(Misc). And Cash Flow (Out)(Fuel) remains at its decreased level, saving me money for as long as WVO is still free. >> >>I'd appreciate your opinion, and any others too. And I'll share my Excel Cost Analysis Spreadsheet with anybody who wants it. >> >> > And it was only the first batch that I felt the (unnecessary) need >> >to reprocess that I had problems with. The one following that just >> >took a little extra washing (7 instead of 3-4) and the last one >> >turned out absolutely perfectly. I put the sum of the second two >> >batches in my truck yesterday morning; all 0.4 gallons (~1.5L)! But >> >it was $1.18 I didn't have to spent at the pump! >> >>What will you do with the $1.18? Be happy I didn't put it in my fuel tank! >> >> > This weekend; my first WVO test batches. Hooray! >> >>Good luck. >> >>Best >> >>Keith >> >> Doing WVO batches is my "different sources" next step toward; >"When you're confident that you can get good results every time, **even >using oil from different >sources**, then it's time to scale up the process >to provide your fuel needs." Its a linear progression; 1) Confidence in 1L clean oil test batches. -You know the basic process. 2) Confidence in 1L waste oil test batches. -You can perform titration and adjust the process for WVO variables. 3) Confidence in small WVO batches (10-20L). -You have build your processor correctly. 4) Confidence in medium WVO batches (30-50L). -You can scale up correctly 5) Confidence in full capacity WVO batches (100L). -Tell OPEC to kiss your fuzzy butt, you don't need their stinking diesel anymore. I'm starting step 2 this weekend. I'll let you all know how it goes. If all goes well, I may be to step 5 by July. Ryan _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
