Well ya that's me on Ebay too silly. But I thought people were more scientific here so I could charge more for it. It's a little trick I learned from Revlon.
Cheers Joe Mike Weaver wrote: > Dear Mr. Smartypants Street: > > Ebay is selling THE EXACT SAME Orthagonal magnets for 399.00! > > So your little scheme won't work. > > We're on to you. > > > > Joe Street wrote: > > >>Outrage is not allowed. >> >>BTW kitty litter is EXPENSIVE. Orthagonal magnets are permanent and >>work better anyways. A one time up front investment of 1000 dollars or 4 >>easy payments of 599.99 and you can make all the fuel you will ever need > >>from ditch swill. Forget about veggie oil. Those days are over. > >>Taking orders now....and if you call now you get a free magnetic water >>softener. Limited time offer. Call now. >> >>J >> >>Mike Weaver wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>Well, I for one am completely outraged about every single post in the >>>last two years. >>>Besides, if you people haven't figured out you can wash biodisel with >>>kitty litter and skip the water all together, well, it's not as if I >>>didn't warn you. >>>I will be taking out a patent on this and selling it on Ebay so the list >>>and JtF will soon be irrelevant. >>> >>>Mike "soon to be a large faceless corporation" Weaver >>> >>> >>>Keith Addison wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Chris Bennett was certainly angry. He posted his last message and I >>>>just got the notice that he unsubscribed shortly afterwards, before I >>>>posted my reply, below. That's ridiculous. Oh well. Best of luck to >>>>him. >>>> >>>>Best >>>> >>>>Keith >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hello Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Keith Addison wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>You seem rather cross, Chris. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Not at all, lol, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>:-) If you insist. Try reading it again (like you had to read what >>>>>I'd said again - but I think you should read that again too). Very >>>>>common to back off and use an lol as a cover when people overreact. >>>>> >>>>>There's a wide disconnect between what I said and your angry response >>>>>to it, and now you're trying to stretch what I said to cover the gap. >>>>>Lots of confusion as a result, and my original post that you're >>>>>interpreting every which way rather than reading the damn' thing has >>>>>gone missing in action, so I'll put it back, here it is: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Something to add might be whether Magnesol really does give the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>same results. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>If it's time-saving that's the aim there are ways round that without >>>>>>becoming more dependent on anyone. >>>>>> >>>>>>I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're >>>>>>starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol >>>>>>is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). >>>>>> >>>>>>You can easily get within the standard specs with well-made homebrew >>>>>>biodiesel plus a few hours spent stir-washing it. If you GC'd the >>>>>>result and compared it with a sample of the same batch of homebrew >>>>>>dry-washed with Magnesol, what would it show? >>>>>> >>>>>>Has anybody seen such results? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Okay? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I just get the impression >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>:-) It's wasn't a very impressionistic piece of writing. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>that it was you opinion that using anything other than water for >>>>>>cleaning biodiesel was a big 'no no'. The way your response came >>>>>>across read to me like that. I apologise if I misread you. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Apology accepted, but you still are misreading it. If you still see >>>>>it as a dismissal rather than a question then I'd have to ask why you >>>>>dislike the question so much. >>>>> >>>>>Biofuels makes the best sense when production is localised and >>>>>therefore necessarily adapted to local conditions (even the US >>>>>military thinks that these days). That means the Appropriate >>>>>Technology approach, and *that* means K.I.S.S., on the one hand, and >>>>>optimal use of locally available, renewable resources on the other, >>>>>such as water - whether it's scarce or not is a local condition and >>>>>doesn't change the principle. >>>>> >>>>>So, yes, there will be resistance to relying on anything extra that >>>>>doesn't meet those criteria, especially if top-quality fuel >>>>>production is a simple matter without it. >>>>> >>>>>If you're not aware of this background then that's your problem. >>>>>Finding it introduced when you're not expecting it may not be a >>>>>pleasant surprise, but concluding that it means we don't do biofuels >>>>>discussions here and you might as well go somewhere else with your >>>>>nose in the air is kind of preposterous. But it's up to you of >>>>>course, feel free. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>I reached no such conclusion. I expressed a valid doubt and asked >>>>>>>for some evidence. The burden of proof is not on me nor on the >>>>>>>consumer when the makers of a commercial product make claims for >>>>>>>it, it's on them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>"I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're >>>>>>starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol >>>>>>is just masking the problem (like mist-washing)." >>>>>> >>>>>>I read this as you opinion >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Not so. If I'd said it doesn't give better-quality results, that >>>>>would be an opinion. But I said I didn't accept it and asked for test >>>>>results that would tell one way or the other. That's a question. "I >>>>>expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence." What you read >>>>>into that, what it suggests to you, the impression you get from it, >>>>>is that I'm rejecting discussion of it. That's the sort of logic you >>>>>get from the Red Queen in Alice. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>being that the results from my experiments were some how 'made up'. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Why not try reading what's there instead of what you're reading into >>>>>it that isn't there? You're just cross because you saw it as an >>>>>attack on your experiments and maybe on you. Go and find where I said >>>>>that, or even implied it. In the following post I asked you about >>>>>your processing, but I didn't say it was crap. Why are you protesting >>>>>so loudly? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>My results showed that I can wash my product quicker with magnesol >>>>>>and that this is the result I am looking for with my process in mind. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>... "my product"... "quicker". But you haven't convinced yet that >>>>>you're getting good completion with your product. Let's have a look >>>>>at that now. I asked: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>Would you say that you've reached a stage with learning the process >>>>>>>where you can easily make homebrew biodiesel yourself that gets >>>>>>>within the standard specs with a few hours spent stir-washing it so >>>>>>>you can do some comparative tests yourself? I didn't get the >>>>>>>impression that was established with the results you gave us, >>>>>>>please correct me if I'm wrong. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I have indeed. If you refer to the fact that I over 'lyed' the test >>>>>>batches then the reason for this was quite deliberate. In the event >>>>>>of a misreading, miscalculation or mismeasurement during a process >>>>>>then the water washing stage offers the ability to correct the >>>>>>oversight. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>If the mis-whatever results in poor completion it will only mask it, >>>>>not correct it. Like mist-washing. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I wanted to be sure that a magnesol wash could cope with this. If a >>>>>>measured dose of magnesol can cope with a soapy batch diesel then it >>>>>>can certanly cope with a good batch. If I had not done this then I >>>>>>would have had no 'safety factor' in my conclusions. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>You're trying to cope with soap that shouldn't be there if you're >>>>>getting good completion. Good processing is the safety factor, not >>>>>different post-processing techniques. >>>>> >>>>>I'm beginning to think you can't answer my question. Have you made >>>>>standard spec biodiesel that you can stir wash without problems or >>>>>not? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I agree its up to the manufacturer to provide evidence, and they >>>>>>comissioned a report to find the answers, it is readlily available >>>>>>in the public domain. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>But it's not my job to find it there. I didn't propose Magnesol, you >>>>>did. I asked. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>You're siding with risk assessment, we go by the Precautionary >>>>>>>Principle here, we ask questions, and "is that not why we are >>>>>>>here!!!!!". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>As do I. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>If you were you wouldn't have said it's up to me to provide the >>>>>evidence that the manufacturer's claims aren't true. That's akin as >>>>>saying there's no evidence that "it" (whatever, thalidomide, DDT, >>>>>Ford Pintos, whatever) does any harm rather than requiring evidence >>>>>that it doesn't do any harm. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I am a professional engineer and havent got by on taking things for >>>>>>granted and not requiring proof of principles when integrating new >>>>>>techniques, processes, and technologies. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>That's a different matter. There are probably just as many >>>>>professional engineers on both sides of the issue. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>You say 'we ask questions'? But what questions have been asked? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Well, hell, how many times do I have to ask them? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I have simply made available to a group of people who are interested >>>>>>in biofuels my results from utilising a variation in the process, >>>>>>nothing more, nothing less. I would expect a better way forward for >>>>>>the current biofuel technologies would be to discuss these >>>>>>variations, and see if they are a step forwards, or indeed backwards. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>But God forbid that anyone should ask questions you didn't expect eh? >>>>>We have to just accept it without question or it would be, what would >>>>>it be, "negative"? Counterproductive? >>>>> >>>>>Here we all are to investigate and ask questions but if someone asks >>>>>questions that's not what we're here for? You're making my head hurt. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Your previusly quoted comment suggests >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Please stop telling me what I "suggested" and how you read it and >>>>>what impression you got from it, it's a straightforward question, not >>>>>the Rosetta Stone. Why are you wriggling so much? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>that you have no belief that this is the case here, and you admitted >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Admitted? I wasn't aware I was accused of anything. Who's talking >>>>>about "belief"? Is Magnesol a religion now? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>yourself that you have seen no evidence. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I ASKED for evidence. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I feel this is not the way to move forward. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Let's try yet again, I'll shout the whole thing, with screamers: >>>>> >>>>>I ASKED FOR EVIDENCE!!! >>>>> >>>>>You're kicking up a smokescreen. I wonder why? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>Who's trying to stop you? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I wasnt aware that anybody was! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>You suggested I was, or at least that's how I read it, I distinctly >>>>>got that impression. (Did you enjoy that?) But have a look at what >>>>>you said: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>So personally if I can find a way around utilising a scarce and >>>>>>precious commodity then I will try it, is that not why we are >>>>>>here!!!!! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Try adding "no matter who tries to stop me!!!!!" and see if it fits or not. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Not sure what agve you the idea that I was considering binning the idea. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I sure didn't have that idea. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>On the other hand, as we all know or should by now, the water >>>>>>>resource you'd be using need not be wasted, and I'm afraid I have >>>>>>>to ask whether you use a flush toilet that uses fresh water? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I do indeed flush my toilet with fresh water. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Why don't you use a sawdust toilet and compost it? No water use, no >>>>>waste of organic "wastes" that should be returned to the soil (to >>>>>produce more biofuels crops perhaps). It'll even give a free source >>>>>of processing heat. You could use the water you'd saved for washing >>>>>and get the same or better results without tying your biodiesel >>>>>production to an outside source you have no control over, and you >>>>>might even save more water that way. Just as long as you know how to >>>>>make the fuel properly in the first place. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Attractive as it may be to carry waste wash water from work 20 miles >>>>>>to home to refill the cistern, I doubt the practical aspects of >>>>>>doing this would go without a frown or two from the wife. :-D >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>You've provided us with one reason anyway for using Magnesol >>>>>>>(presuming it passes the other hurdles Todd mentioned, and me), and >>>>>>>you've also offered some test results below, which is what I asked >>>>>>>for though I haven't read them yet, so what's the problem? Isn't >>>>>>>that why we're here? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Just re-read Todds message and although I can see a few important >>>>>>issues he mentioned regarding energy expenses, as to actual hurdles >>>>>>in the way of integrating magnesol into a process I see none. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Sigh. >>>>> >>>>>I'll leave you to it Chris. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>Would you say that you've reached a stage with learning the process >>>>>>>where you can easily make homebrew biodiesel yourself that gets >>>>>>>within the standard specs with a few hours spent stir-washing it so >>>>>>>you can do some comparative tests yourself? I didn't get the >>>>>>>impression that was established with the results you gave us, >>>>>>>please correct me if I'm wrong. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Best >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Keith >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I have indeed. If you refer to the fact that I over 'lyed' the test >>>>>>batches then the reason for this was quite deliberate. In the event >>>>>>of a misreading, miscalculation or mismeasurement during a process >>>>>>then the water washing stage offers the ability to correct the >>>>>>oversight. I wanted to be sure that a magnesol wash could cope with >>>>>>this. If a measured dose of magnesol can cope with a soapy batch >>>>>>diesel then it can certanly cope with a good batch. If I had not >>>>>>done this then I would have had no 'safety factor' in my conclusions. >>>>>> >>>>>>I will leave this subject at that and make no more mention of it. I >>>>>>was interested in getting feedback and ideas on the >>>>>>technical/chemistry side of things, maybe this is not the place to >>>>>>do that. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>It certainly isn't the place for smokescreening. If you want yesmen >>>>>who'll never dare venture beyond the frame of reference you specify >>>>>then you should try somewhere else perhaps. We do scepticism here >>>>>too, as well as the Precautionary Principle. And straight talk. >>>>> >>>>>Best >>>>> >>>>>Keith >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Chris.. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>>> >>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>> >>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>>messages): >>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Biofuel mailing list >>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>> >>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>> >>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuel mailing list >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
