Sorry Bob my head is up ....... in the clouds. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 5:41 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol
actually, my name is bob (see signature below) Derick Giorchino wrote: > Thanks for the response Keith. > This is very good info for me. I do not wish to spend a lot of time trying > to do something that is close to imposable or just impractical. > When I could be out collecting U.V.O. or making bio d. > Would you have any idea what Doug is speeking of earlier in this post? > He makes it sound like ethanol is easily done. from sugar yes it is easy- I do it almost daily in my hummingbird feeder. But ethanol from cellulose is very difficult. I maybe reading into this > though. Derick. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:20 PM > To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol > > Derick, you are talking about "cellolosic ethanol", that is ethanol made > from cellulose, rather than > from starch. This is the "holy grail" of ethanol production. Very small > amounts of ethanol can be > made from sulfuric acid digestion of cellulose, but the yield is abysmal and > the cost high. My > position is it is not worth the time, trouble, and expense. the problems > are manifold. First is > the fact that the lignin present, which binds the cellulose, is not easily > separable from the > cellulose,and hydrolysis of cellulose to free the sugars is much more > difficult that that of starch, > and finally the sugars released from cellulose fermentation are not easily > fermentable with yeast. > Big bucks have been spent trying to solve these problems since at least the > 70's with little or no > success. Simply, if it were easy, it would be happening everywhere, as the > feedstock- cellulosic > wastes-are abundant. > > > Derick Giorchino wrote: >> No Keith am not confused. I do make biodiesel. I use methanol and until > some >> one has a better way that's what I will use. I was asking about the >> production of ethanol to use in other family vehicles. >> Since they are gas engines. I read on J.T.F. way back when I was starting >> the venture of bio. That ethanol can be made at home using wood chips > /paper >> and I think there may have been also a mention of dry grass and brush and >> breaking it down with sulfuric acid. But I would need to go back and read > it >> over. My quarry was as to the amount of yield verses raw product used per >> liter /gal or what ever. >> Thanks Derick. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison >> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 6:40 AM >> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol >> >>> What are you people talking about????? >>> >>> have you ever made any type of biofuel? >>> Seems to me that you are confusing them all. >>> Acid Base process and ethanol fuel? >>> Methanol vs ethanol? It has sense in biodiesel production, but you are >> talking >>> alcohol fuel for petroleum engines. >> Doug is being a bit confusing. He was talking about both ethanol fuel >> in gasoline engines and using ethanol to make biodiesel. Gasoline >> engines will run on 80% ethanol and 20% water (ie 160 proof) but to >> make ethyl esters biodiesel the ethanol must be dry, and Doug doesn't >> know how to make dry ethanol (absolute), he can't do better than 85% >> ( you should be able to get 95% by distillation). So Doug's question >> about ethanol vs methanol for making biodiesel doesn't make much >> sense to me either. I don't think Doug has made biodiesel, or he >> wouldn't ask anyway - ethanol biodiesel is difficult to make, not for >> novices, not even when the ethanol is dry, methanol biodiesel is the >> way to start. I don't think we know of any novices who've succeeded >> with ethyl esters biodiesel. I don't know how Doug was planning to >> make methanol, there's no small-scale backyard way of producing >> methanol. He seems to think you can make it by treating sawdust with >> concentrated acid, but that makes ethanol, not methanol. I also don't >> understand the reference to the acid-base process for producing >> ethanol, the acid-base process at JtF produces biodiesel, not >> ethanol. Oh well. >> >> Has nobody yet discovered whether the castor oil method for producing >> absolute ethanol works or not? I've been after a source of 20 litres >> of castor oil here in Japan but I haven't found it yet. The method is >> here: >> >> Separating Ethanol From Water Via Differential Miscibility -- using castor >> oil >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html#castoil >> >> Best >> >> Keith >> >>> Does not make too much sense. >>> Andrew >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Derick Giorchino >>> To: <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 1:01 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol >>> >>> Hi Doug I am interested in the ethanol production you are using. >>> What is it can you point me in the right direction? Is it the acid >>> base as is explained at J.T.F.? As for the carb problems maybe a >>> marine carb is more tolerant of the alcohol fuel if not there are >>> places that could chrome or anodize the carb bowls for a price you >>> would need to re thread all the holes. Or maybe powder coating would >>> work. >>> >>> Good luck Derick >>> >>> >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of lres1 >>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:03 AM >>> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>> Subject: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol >>> >>> >>> >>> Would like to know the advantages if any of using Methanol instead >>> of Ethanol in making bio-diesel. It is very easy to make Ethanol >>> with down to 15% water. Seems kinda silly to make Ethanol and >>> Methanol if Ethanol will do all. >>> >>> >>> >>> Have now got a MPEFI Jeep running on 80% Ethanol and 20% water as a >>> straight injection. Have a few bugs to work out but total conversion >>> cost is less than US$20.00. >>> >>> To convert back to RUG is a flick of a switch on the dash. >>> >>> >>> >>> This makes more sense now to use the Ethanol instead of making >>> Methanol for bio-diesel production as I already make the ethanol and >>> it can replace RUG in a MPEFI engine or standard carb engine. I >>> still have no replies on how to lacquer or coat an alloy carburetor >>> to stop reactions with the Ethanol. At present The system is fully >>> drained and blown with compressed air to clear out all water and >>> Ethanol. Would be kinda nice to be able to shut the engines off and >>> just walk away and not have the cleaning time. >>> >>> >>> >>> I do not want to get rid of the water in my Ethanol replacement for >>> RUG as it gives much more power than RUG at 80 to 85% Ethanol and 15 >>> to 20% water mix. The plasticized fuel tanks and lines can handle it >>> all the carbs can not. >>> >>> >>> >>> My next step is to try and run 502 C.I. V8 engines and 351 modified >>> engines and 350 C.I. engines with 4 barrel hollies on Ethanol but >>> need to clear up the carb reaction problems with the alloys involved. >>> >>> >>> >>> Would like to know how to get to 0.5% water for bio-diesel >>> processing. Same question as JJJN I guess >>> >>> >>> >>> Doug >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuel mailing list >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> messages): >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuel mailing list >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> >> >> > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob ------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------------- The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG -------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
