Jim,
After storing the BD for 3 months with the copper tube in it I was
concerned because the BD was cloudy.
I heated it and it cleared, but I was still suspicious of it.
I did the methanol solubility test on it. It had passed the test beautifully
when I made it 3 months before. Now the methanol was cloudy; no precipitate,
but cloudy. After two or three days the cloud settled to the bottom. It was
not the typical residue I get when I have an incomplete reaction. I suspect
that polymerized BD does not dissolve in methanol as well as unpolymerized
.... could be wrong.
You give good advice re: storage, but I'm a bit leary about using the
biocide. It is extremely toxic and being a biocide, is not biodegradable. I
prefer to make BD that will be consumed in 1, 2, or 3 months.
I wonder about storing WVO in metal drums? Some of my settling tanks
are recycled methanol barrels.
Best to you,
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "JJJN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Polymerization of BD- more than copperto be
concernedwith.
> What good would the methanol test do? I don't see a relationship with
> Polymerization. Now If you get a varnish layer like you would when
> oxidation affects Tung oil thats a sure giveaway it seems. I may be
> wrong but please explain.
>
> Also, Tung oil is a good subject here, Polymerization affects it about
> as fast as anything going all you do is add oxygen and it happens.
> However I have store it for years by just containering it to eliminate
> the exposure to oxygen as I use it. I also understand the oil has
> oxygen present during the packaging and seldom it is when I don' t open
> a can that has been around for a couple years that there is not a Skin.
> However the skin removed and the remaining oil is as good as ever until
> you add oxygen again.
>
> So my premise here is: Catalysts may be present but without the oxygen
> they are inert to a point. Therefore, it becomes more important to
> reduce Oxygen in storage and processing than variables that are out of
> your control. However that is not to say one should introduce any Metal
> ions in the process if at all avoidable. I think that Biodiesel can be
> stored well if it is:
> 1) Stored with the containers full as possible.
> 2) Stored out of sunlight and in as cold a place as possible.
> 3) Processed in a way as to eliminate oxygen and metal ions in the
> process as much as possible.
> 4) Use a hydrolyzed oil if you can get your hands on it.
> 5) If using a venturi it is absolute prerequisite that you DO NOT LET
> AIR CHURN IN DURING PROCESSING.
> 6) Get the fuel dry. ( use a Diesel fuel de-ox and fungicide.)
>
> I have been wrong before and submit this premise to the greater minds of
> the list for scrutiny. Interesting subject this.
>
> Jim
>
> Joe Street wrote:
>
>> Hi Tom;
>>
>> Just for giggles, if you get time I'd be curious if the methanol test
>> still passes on the 2 month old B100. I assume it will still oxidize
>> even without the copper in constant contact. There is sure to be
>> metal ions in the fuel from various sources. Now that the cold is
>> here and I can only run B50 I'll slow down my production so I don't
>> get ahead of myself like I did last winter.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> Thomas Kelly wrote:
>>
>>>Joe,
>>> Keep in mind that I had a 1M. piece of copper tubing submerged in
>>> the
>>>BD for over 3 months. I have a cubie of BD that was still crystal clear
>>>after 2 months (the longest I have stored BD other than the polymerized
>>>stuff) and it will go in the car.
>>> The 50+ gal (200L) of BD in question is burning in my oil-fired
>>> boiler.
>>>I'm about half way through it and with the temps getting cooler it should
>>>be
>>>gone soon. Good riddance to it.
>>> I like the silver lining you found in what looked like a grey cloud.
>>> Tom
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
>>>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:12 PM
>>>Subject: [Biofuel] Polymerization of BD- more than copper to be
>>>concernedwith.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>While looking for info on IR spectra, I found this excellent paper;
>>>>
>>>>http://nationalbiodieselboard.com/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/19970612_gen-234.pdf#search=%22biodiesel%20methyl%20ester%20wavenumber%22
>>>>
>>>>Which talks about issues surrounding fuel contamination and deposits.
>>>>An earlier thread had comments from Tom Kelly regarding copper ions
>>>>causing polymerization. According to this paper other metals such as
>>>>aluminum and iron can catalyze polymerization when biodiesel is stored.
>>>>This news is good and bad. The bad news is I think it is impossible to
>>>>avoid these metal ions. Even if the system is all plastic or plastic
>>>>lined I bet the WVO feedstocks are already chocked with metal, and the
>>>>fuel will pick up metals in the vehicle anyways. This means that
>>>>biodiesel should not be stored. DUH. Didn't I read that on J2F years
>>>>ago? The good news is that the polymerization is slow at room
>>>>temperature. This is also good news because it means that the folks who
>>>>are trying to produce massive quantities of biodiesel are going to have
>>>>a BIG problem that they just cannot solve because they need to store and
>>>>transport the product. And their product has a poor shelf life. Hmmm. Of
>>>>course the home brewer who can make fuel locally and use it immediately
>>>>doesn't have to worry. Yaaaay. Chalk one up for sustainability.
>>>>Uh I guess we already knew this eh Keith? But I never thought of it as
>>>>a problem for big oil until now.
>>>>
>>>>Joe
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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