Hi Bob.
You mentioned methy ethyl ketone (MEK) as a possible cold start
additive to an ethanol/water mix.
I was hoping that methyl butyl ketone might be used instead. It is on
the list of substances that can be used to denature ethanol.
- It is much less soluble in water than MEK (14g/L vs 290g/L) ----->
Higher vapor pressure??? ("vapor pressure is inversely proportional to
solubility")
- It's boiling point is higher than MET ----> lower vapor pressure?
("The boiling point of a liquid is defined as that temperature when the
vapor pressure equals atmospheric pressure.")
Help me Bob, I'm confused.
Is methyl butyl ketone a good candidate for denaturing ethanol w.
water in it and, can the mix then be used as engine fuel?
OR Is it more likely to be used to denature anhydrous ethanol that is
intended to be used as a solvent?
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts
> Zeke you have vapor pressure backwards. Lower vapor pressure means less
> volatile. The boiling point of a liquid is defined as that temperature
> when the vapor pressure equals atmospheric pressure (760 mm Hg at sea
> level)
> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>> I don't think that adding water would be the right way to go. I think
>> the problem is that ethanol has a higher vapor pressure
>
> lower vapor pressure
>> than gasoline, and in cold weather, it is hard to get it to vaporize
>> into a fuel-air mixture effectively. Gasoline vaporizes much easier,
>> and gets the engine going and initiates the combustion. But water has
>> an even higher vapor pressure
> lower
>> than ethanol, plus it is not a fuel, so I don't think it would help.
>> Since all of the commercially produced flex fuel vehicals that I've
>> seen are designed to run E85, I think they just rely on the gasoline
>> content to start in the winter.
>
> the only way to improve cold starts on a vehicle running on ethanol
> water would be to add a something more volatile (higher vapor pressure)
> which is miscible with the more polar ethanol water mix. The problem
> here is that vapor pressure and water solubility tend to be inversely
> proportional. One guess would be acetone,or possibly methyl ethyl
> ketone. both should be miscible in ethanol/water but more volatile than
> either.
>
>> What bugs me is that I can't buy any flex fuel vehicals that are
>> efficient -- I mean, if I want a flex fuel vehical, I have to upgrade
>> to a full sized pickup or a V8 sedan. Where's the little 4 cylinder
>> efficient flex fuel vehical? Guess it's not all that hard to change
>> out carbureator jets to change the fuel air ratio yourself to allow
>> running ethanol.
>>
>
> what's a carburetor? :->
>
>> Z
>>
>> On 11/28/06, *Thomas Kelly* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello All,
>> I've read that people using ethanol, blend in 15 - 20%
>> gasoline to improve cold weather starts.
>> What would one do if they were running on 85 - 90% ethanol
>> : 10 -15% water to improve cold weather starts?
>> Do flex fuel cars have options for block heaters?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom
>>
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>
> --
>
>
> Bob Allen, ozarker.org/bob
> ------------------------------
> Actually we are all atheists. When you understand why you have
> rejected every other God but one, then you will understand why I have
> rejected yours. -Author unknown
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