Chuckles...good to sea sum humur creeping back into this thread...
--- Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Kieth, > > As a clone myself, I resent this whole line of > discussion. > > -Waever > > > Keith Addison wrote: > > >>Hello Luke > >> > >> > > > >Sorry, should have been Leo. On the other hand... > > > > > > > >>>I think you are wrong Kieth > >>> > >>> > > > >That's not my name either. > > > >Best > > > >Keith > > > > > > > > > >>But you've left out what I said. Here it is: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Leo, I think you're making a mistake in assuming > that there's some > >>>kind of free choice at work. There isn't, much - > yes, it is possible > >>>to exercise individual choice, but in the face of > a massive, > >>>pervasive and effective barrage of persuasion > such as the world has > >>>never before seen from the extremely well-funded > and well-connected > >>>opinion manufacturing industry, the fragment of > the populace actually > >>>capable of making their own free choice is kept > small enough to make > >>>sure it will never be a popular decision, and the > rest get the wrong > >>>information anyway, no thanks to a supine media. > >>> > >>>With many of these issues, what all the > externalisations end up > >>>amounting to is that, free choice or not, nobody > is excluded in the > >>>end from the manufactured non-decisions of the > masses, as Robert has > >>>just been lamenting: "We simply can't get away > from the problem > >>>anymore." > >>> > >>>So please don't leave such things for the magic > of the marketplace to > >>>provide solutions, because any such magic has > long ago been hijacked. > >>>We have to see these things coming in time to > stop them if necessary, > >>>or at least to enforce due precaution. > >>> > >>> > >>Anyway... > >> > >> > >> > >>>I think you are wrong Kieth > >>> > >>> > >>I did say "yes, it is possible to exercise > individual choice", > >>please remember. > >> > >>Sorry to say so (really!), but it's apparent that > you're not aware of > >>the shitstorm of spin you live in. That's the > whole idea. That the > >>manufacturers manufacture what the consumers want > to consume is an > >>idea that climbs a couple of steps up the ladder, > sits down and goes > >>to sleep. The consumers end up wanting whatever > the manufacturers > >>choose to manufacture, and the essential > manufactured product is not > >>made in factories, it's bought elsewhere, paid > for, manufactured and > >>delivered, and it's called "consent". > >> > >>It's very important for most Americans to believe > they have freedom > >>of choice, it's a major plank in most of the great > American myths. > >> > >>But Americans are essentially living in a society > for which there is > >>no precedent when it comes to the sheer quantity, > spread, reach, > >>penetration and effectiveness of manufactured and > implanted opinion. > >>This affects all the industrialised societies, but > particularly > >>America (to an extent which leaves the rest of the > world gobsmacked > >>on a daily basis), and at this pitch - a total > onslaught - it's not > >>just a matter of degree, it becomes a different > thing. > >> > >>Spin has always been effective, since it was first > deployed (in the > >>US) in 1916. But again, it's become a different > thing in the last 30 > >>years of corporatism and corporate globalisation, > and it makes a > >>crucial difference. > >> > >>Many people, especially in the last few years, are > saying that it's > >>something you can only see from outside America, > and there's a lot to > >>be said for that, we've seen it at work here, > often, some classic > >>cases. > >> > >>Among the great successes of the opinion > manufacturing industry are > >>the ones who think they know about spin and think > they're immune to > >>it. > >> > >>Spin doesn't work with facts, no need to - so much > easier if it can > >>be arranged that people *want* to believe your > message, which is > >>easily arranged: then *they* will argue the > "facts" for you. So to > >>speak... this is what generally happens: > >> > >>"One of the fundamental findings of cognitive > science is that people > >>think in terms of frames and metaphors - > conceptual structures. The > >>frames are in the synapses of our brains - > physically present in the > >>form of neural circuitry. When the facts don't fit > the frames, the > >>frames are kept and the facts ignored." - George > Lakoff > >> > >>Denial, in other words. > >> > >>Consumer choice, LOL! > >> > >>How about some examples? For instance, do you > think the massive > >>preponderance of SUV gas-guzzlers on US roads, far > more than > >>elsewhere, is a reflection of the true and natural > innate desires and > >>free consumer choices of American drivers? Please > DON'T start that > >>whole discussion again, it's ALL in the archives, > several times over. > >>If you do think that, do some research, see how > much free choice > >>you're left with in the end. > >> > >>Do you think you can't buy an electric car in the > US because the > >>consumers don't want them, as Detroit claims? Ask > an American > >>electric car freak about that (also in the > archives). > >> > >>Have you heard of the PNGV program? More and more > Americans want to > >>buy hybrids these days eh? We've even (often) had > people asking why > >>there aren't any diesel hybrids. A majority of > Americans now want > >>independence from foreign oil (another myth) - yet > right there, in > >>the multi-billion-dollar PNGV program that got > stashed away on > >>various backroom shelves in Detroit and > Washington, are (were) three > >>diesel hybrids that ran at 80mpg and were only a > year or two away > >> > >> > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! 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