Keith and Doug: Some of the points you both have expressed I consider corrections to my thinking. And it is appreciated. Re the car jack and lever/bate example I had overlooked the distance of moving 2 tons . I am convinced but not totally satisfied. I have been through this example before. My mind keeps reverting back to when I jacked up the 2 storey shed/workshop. It still amazes me that I was able to lift that thing with a bait . sure seemed an efficient use of my breakfast that day! I still wonder how many calories would have been consumed if I was able to lift it the old fashioned way. I think I could have lifted this thing perhaps 100 xs with the bait before I needed to refill at lunch time. I also compare the energy it takes to push a child on a swing. If the timing is right a little energy input from the 'pusher' goes a long way. This example has been used by some researchers.. if you could get the timing right and pulse the electricity in a harmonized way you can use motive force to your advantage. There are at least 2 examples of motor controllers that show an increased efficiency and run noticeably cooler to touch when using a solid state controller with a given load. If it is the mechanism I described here I suppose the effect would be lost at full load if the motor was sized and designed properly. Still in reality a saving is shown in the real world. A local college professor once said 'we sometimes make things work in the lab that won't work in theory" So in short, while I share your disappointment in many of the offerings, I anticipate breakthrough anytime now. There are probably some cons out there but I should like to think most inventors are trying hard and honest. I hope, Keith, if you have time for just one video you will be able to watch this one where ten wind up flashlights are able to be lit with the energy it takes to light one. This is obviously not meant for anything more than a demonstration, but I think it will lead to more. I am sure there are plenty of folks at this site who would be very capable of furthering this. http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-7)_Un iversal_oscillator-generator.wmv Regarding the EBM overunity motor posted at Keelynet. Sorry I did not post their website Here it is http://www.gammamanager.com/ one of the links commenting said they have not in fact achieved enough energy to be self running, but it did not indicate a date. The company's certified engineering data states a 24.9 KW input is delivering 32.29 KW output produced as heat, obviously this is not what we are looking for. The second test shows a 101.8 KW unit is putting out 108.6 KW as electrical energy and heat. This is impressive but still a little disappointing, I hope they can improve on this. This data was published in Aug of this year. Wes Hello Wes >Hi Keith > >At the referenced website there are videos in operation. >Unfortunately you have to copy paste to access the video links. I >know that you must go through a ton of info daily so I will attempt >to provide a few direct links here: Thanks, but the ton of info usually passes me by these days, very little time to spare for keyboards, and, sad to say, I have trouble accessing video online. But I'll try... >http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(vide >o-4)_Mechanical_hammer.wmv > >http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(vide >o-5)_Laboratory_pump.wmv > >http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(vide >o-7)_Universal_oscillator-generator.wmv > >Apparently Milkovic has done public demonstrations of the water pump >as seen in the pictures at the main page > >http://www.rexresearch.com/milkovic/milkovic.htm > >In this concept a person would be able to swing the pendulum every >once in a while to maintain a constant water flow. He claims that >one pendulum swing oscillates for about 130 xs. Putting a load on >the pump end seems to have little effect on the oscillation although >it must have a dampening effect on the energy transferred to the >lever action. Yes, but as the guy said, a neat little device but not free energy. >The "dangling magnets" does not quite describe the proposed >application. It was postulated that 2 stationary magnets placed at >the proximity of the extreme ends of the oscillation with like >magnets mounted on the pendulum would force the motion. In my >opinion however I think this would dampen the swing. I think >opposing magnets would draw the swing and if they are positioned so >they can not make contact would release at the end of the swing. >Barring this, I suppose solenoids with a trip switch may be >effective. > >The beauty of this is that anyone can replicate a toy to experiment >with these concepts due to its simplicity. > >Regarding other over unity devices: > >Keelynet posted this link: :-) >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6MDHF39XmU from Budapest. They >claim a coordinated effort from labs in Toronto and London. It >achieves 1.4 over unity according to the claim. I am hoping this is >true and that it does not get utilized by energy companies without >passing the savings on to the consumer. This might be similar in >concept to the 1.2 over unity that Mitsubishi was speaking of a few >years back. Were they? Got a link? Anyway... >Hope this helps Well, in other words... >It would be beautiful if there are or ever were any working examples >that actually pumped water with 9:1 over-unity energy, or any >over-unity, do you know of any such examples? > >Do you know of any other working, real-world, attested, authenticated >examples of this over-unity device working? Or of any over-unity >device working? ... the answer's no. >Wes > >N.B. over unity and free energy are not the same. While the energy >to pump the lever is not considered free energy it can be considered >over unity just as a person with a car jack can use perhaps 20 lbs >of force to lift a 2 ton car. I don't think that's a valid comparison. >I agree with being skeptical. However, it would not be surprising to >me if energy interests use a portion of their might to discredit >anything deemed to threaten the profit line. Indeed it wouldn't be surprising, but on the other hand that is invariably a part of the alleged conspiracy that thwarts alleged free energy devices. I'll stick with the scepticism thanks. The list has looked at dozens of these claims by now, all hogwash. Sad to say. Free energy and over-unity devices usually elicit a polarised response with sceptics on one side and true believers on the other, and both sides tend to be dogged about it. I think there quite possibly is such a thing waiting to be discovered and I'm certainly not against people seeking it. But the main lesson learnt so far is that there's definitely a need for scepticism and a rigorous approach. That won't faze a genuine breakthrough, if ever. Right now it's just pie in the sky. Best Keith
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