Oh yes I read what you wrote. You seem to think I should be concerned about the latent energy from the atmosphere and count it as the input cost. The input cost is what we need to do to make it work. Here in the real world where I live I can buy 8221 Btu (2.383Kw) of electrical energy for about 35.5 cents Canadian and turn it into $1.36 worth of energy. When I use just a little of the energy from the sun I increase the return on the input cost to $1.77. Who do you think I should pay to balance the account.
I have no argument with you saying the latent energy in the atmosphere is the difference so you can balance your equation. Calculating the energy extracted from the atmosphere simply allows one to calculate what the over unity factor is. Seems pretty simple to me. I am glad the engineers who first built this system seemed to see things the way I do. I am sorry you don't agree. Wes -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:51 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum Huh? Did you actually read what I wrote? On 1/11/07, Wes Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yes and this is why what does not work in theory sometimes works in practice Wes On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:25 PM On 1/11/07, Wes Moore < [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: Taking the data for a unit similar to mine for an example: 30,000btu McQuay with a typical condition 50F entering water temp @ 6.1 GPM with return air temp @ 70, requires 2.383 KW to operate the pump. This is 8,221 BTU's input. . The output under these conditions is 31,413 BTU's indicating a COP of 3.86. My system draws from a 2,000 gallon pool connected to a thermal solar system . when the pool is 70 to 80 degrees my COP is around 5. I work in this industry and most of my colleagues refer to this as over unity. The actual input to this system is somewhere above 31,413 BTUs -- not the 8,221BTUs you indicate -- some input being electrical energy, and some being thermal energy in that 50F entering water. When defining a thermodynamic system, it does not matter what form energy crosses the boundry of the system -- thermal, mecahnical, electrical, it all counts. Perhaps in the heat pump industry they refer to this as over-unity, but to a physicist, just hearing that immediately makes us discount it as nonsense. I can't speak for everyone else, but I don't think the arguement here is about whether heat pumps work, or how they work, but whether the definition over-unity can be applied to them. _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
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