On 4 Mar, 2007, at 12:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Send Biofuel mailing list submissions to > biofuel@sustainablelists.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ > biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Biofuel digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Termites - Re: Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use > (Zeke Yewdall) > 2. Re: Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use (Zeke Yewdall) > 3. Re: the 'Inconvenient Truth' (Fred Oliff) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 08:42:41 -0700 > From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Termites - Re: Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' > Power Use > To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Anything that discourages natural ecological processes should be well considered before use. Here in the Northeast US, I have chosen to build with wood, often reclaimed from deconstruction operations; and I prefer my constructions to be resistant to termites, carpenter ants, fungi and other organisms that degrade wood. I also prefer to avoid chemical migration into my little corner of the biosphere. I have chosen to use Borates as a wood preservative strategy. Borates are derived from mineral Borax, ground and prepared for absorption into wood. The mineral itself seems to be quite benign, not chemically reactive. Its form however is a sharp micro-crystalline powder which is dissolved into water and absorbed by osmotic action into the wood. Most effectively applied on green (non-dry) wood by spray, dip or brush, but also effective to shallower penetrations on dry wood. Anything that eats the treated wood gets cut by the sharp crystals and dies. The borate penetrant does not form chemical bonds with the wood and is thus susceptible to leaching; but it is surprisingly persistent in the treated wood. Another form is a pressed cylinder of various sizes, set into a drilled hole in the wood in vulnerable locations such as ground-line or direct weather exposure. Generally looks like a cloudy glass slug the size of one's finger. These rods are self-regulating, remaining intact in moisture concentrations below 20% (where wood is quite resistant to microbial decay action) and slowly dissolving at greater than 20%mc. Borate technology is quite mature, being used by utility companies, etc. around the world for over half a century. The USA is a very late adopter having preferred seriously toxic industrial alternatives. A google search of borates generates considerable information including brand names such Impel Rods, Bora-care, Tim-Bor, etc. My research and personal experience find nearly identical products with very divergent pricing with "Board-defense" being a low cost champion. Handle with care, the powder is an irritant and the liquid will kill your gut bacteria. But on the bright side, there's no harmful fumes or outgassing. Tom Thiel > > Don't build from wood. Thats the only surefire method of keeping > carpenter > ants from eating your house in the northwest. Now, unlike termites, > ants > don't actually eat wood, as my grandpa delights in telling me. But > they > chew it up and turn beams into little piles of sawdust, so from a > practical > standpoint, they might as well. > > On 3/4/07, Thomas Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Mike, >> For what it's worth: >> Termites chew the plant matter, including wood, but it is the >> microbes >> in their gut that digest it. Termites, like all animals, lack the >> enzyme >> cellulase, needed to break down plant cell walls. >> As I understand it, the microbes are obligate anaerobes and are >> sensitive to O2. I've heard that high levels of O2 kill their >> endosymbiotic >> microbes and the termites then starve to death. I don't know if this >> is a >> practical means of eliminating termites or if it is done commercially. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 9:48 AM >> Subject: [Biofuel] Termites - Re: Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' >> Power Use >> >> >> Speaking of termites - any advice for a environmentally benign way to >> keep them under control? >> >> -Mike >> >> Keith Addison wrote: >> >>> Hello Wendell >>> >>> <snip> >>> >>> >>> >>>> By the way, I seem to recall that termites are the source >>>> of 20 percent of the world's methane. I am no entomologist --is >>>> there any known benefit to man or beast from termites? >>>> If not, let's get 'em! >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Right, let's kill them all! Termite-caused global warming has to be >>> stopped in its tracks. There can't be anything important about >>> termites anyway, I mean they only produce 20% of the world's methane >>> after all, and only about two-thirds of the world's dead plants go >>> through termites in the organic matter cycle, obviously they're >>> totally useless to man and beast. Anyway, if we can wipe them out and >>> lose that methane maybe we can go right on guzzle-guzzle-guzzling for >>> a few days or weeks longer before we hit Cold Turkey time on the >>> fossil fuels. What do you think we should use, DDT or malathion? >>> >>> What about the methane from wild ruminants, you forgot about them - >>> there are millions and millions of antelope and wildebees in the >>> Serengeti for instance, if we don't go right in there and kill them >>> they'll just go right on farting. >>> >>> Same applies to all these useless creatures, if they can't live >>> without being so irresponsible then they just have to go. >>> >>> Nature knows best, and if Nature was capable of making these >>> decisions for herself she wouldn't have given us brains to do it for >>> her, right? >>> >>> Best >>> >>> Keith >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Wendell >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 04:13:55 CST >>>>> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Terry >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for finding the ref. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Keith, >>>>>> >>>>>> You asked for a link to the the UCS quote. It was from the Green >>>>>> Issue of the Vancouver Sun newspaper in Nov. (Vancouver, BC, Can.) >>>>>> The actual quote was, Methane produced by waste on cattle and hog >>>>>> farms is as hard on the atmospher as 33 million cars. 18% of total >>>>>> global emissions. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> But 33 million cars is only about 15% of the number of vehicles in >>>>> the US, let alone globally, how can that equal 18% of global >>>>> emissions? >>>>> >>>>> "Cattle and hog farms" means CAFOs, not farms, or at least in the >>>>> vast majority of cases. I don't think that's the same as what you >>>>> said, "the total of all livestock on this planet". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> I think the meat industry would account for a lot more than a >>>>>>> paltry >>>>>>> 33 million cars' worth of GHGs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> I still think that. The claim of 18% of global emissions from CAFOs >>>>> doesn't sound unreasonable, but the cars bit can't be right, seems >>>>> to >>>>> me. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Terry. >>>>> >>>>> Best >>>>> >>>>> Keith >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Terry Dyck >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>> Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>>>> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use >>>>>>> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:26:10 +0900 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Terry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Kirk, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If all of us did what we should be doing our houses would be one >>>>>>>> room heated with Geo Thermal, hot water and electricity by >>>>>>>> solar and >>>>>>>> we would walk or bike almost everywere >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> This: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and we would be totally Vegan. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ... is nonsense, as we've established quite thoroughly many >>>>>>> times. >>>>>>> Please go to the archives and check it out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There is no way of raising crops sustainably without using >>>>>>> livestock >>>>>>> in the production system. No vegetarian farming system has ever >>>>>>> survived the test of time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please don't argue about it until you've checked it out, no need >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> go over the same old ground yet another time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Union of Concerned Scientists reports that because of the >>>>>>>> amount >>>>>>>> of Methane gas caused from feed lots, etc. that the total of all >>>>>>>> livestock on this planet is equivalent to taking 33 million >>>>>>>> cars of >>>>>>>> the road. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Feed lots, etc"? What does the "etc" mean? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm sure the amount of GHGs emitted by trees etc is even worse, >>>>>>> should we cut them all down too? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Do trees share blame for global warming?" >>>>>>> http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0119/p13s01-sten.html >>>>>>> "Globally, living plants may contribute from 10 to 30 percent of >>>>>>> global methane emissions." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I haven't seen the UCS report you mention, would you give us a >>>>>>> reference or a link please? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway you're talking about feedlots, CAFOs, Confined Animal >>>>>>> Feeding >>>>>>> Operations, industrialised factory farms. No CAFOs no meat? >>>>>>> That's >>>>>>> the same mistake enviros make when they attack fuel ethanol >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> they don't like Archer Daniel Midlands and Cargill. There are >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> ways of doing things, as we ought to know by now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There've been a number of high-profile critiques of industrial >>>>>>> meat >>>>>>> production and global warming, this is the main one: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/ >>>>>>> A0701E00.htm >>>>>>> Livestock's long shadow - Environmental issues and options >>>>>>> Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Feedlot cattle, pigs and poultry eat industrialised grain, >>>>>>> produced >>>>>>> with high dependence on fossil-fuel inputs and at high >>>>>>> environmental >>>>>>> cost, and the same applies to the CAFO livestock production >>>>>>> system >>>>>>> itself. Check out how carbon-neutral industrialised grain turns >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> to be. Pastured livestock eat forage. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With CAFOs most of the methane emissions result from the manure >>>>>>> storage, especially in with pigs. With pastured livestock, >>>>>>> especially >>>>>>> with rotational pasture, the manure provides the soil fertility >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> produce multiple following crops, displaces the need for >>>>>>> fossil-fuel >>>>>>> based chemical fertilisers, and does so at a healthy profit. Such >>>>>>> pasture soils sequester very large amounts of carbon. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think the meat industry would account for a lot more than a >>>>>>> paltry >>>>>>> 33 million cars' worth of GHGs. Well so what, it doesn't have any >>>>>>> future anyway, any more than the rest of the industrial >>>>>>> agriculture >>>>>>> disaster does. It's fossil-fuel dependent every step of the way, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> measured in food miles that comes to a hell of a long way. It'll >>>>>>> bust >>>>>>> all their bottom-lines when carbon accounting starts hitting the >>>>>>> global trade it depends on, the insane distribution system, the >>>>>>> processing. Apart from all of which CAFOs have become a major >>>>>>> bio-hazard. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No need for it anyway. The future is small, sustainable, >>>>>>> family-run >>>>>>> mixed farms with integrated crop and livestock production, low >>>>>>> input, >>>>>>> high output, local markets. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Keith >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Terry Dyck >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>>>> Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>>>>>> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use >>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:45:14 -0800 (PST) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message is - It isnt really that important. If it were I >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> would do it. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> So how true is it - at least to him. >>>>>>>>> If it doent motivate him maybe he knows something we dont. >>>>>>>>> So of all people to squander energy it shouldnt be him. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You might want to look into Cripple Creek Coal which he is on >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> board of directors. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kirk >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Kirk and all, >>>>>>>>> When the message cannot be attacked then attack the messenger. >>>>>>>>> Ok, >>>>>>>>> so Gore doesn?t walk the talk. How many of us do? We try to, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> there is a long way to go for most everyone in the developed >>>>>>>>> world. >>>>>>>>> It?s the message that?s inportant, not the man. >>>>>>>>> Tom Irwin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>>>> Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>>>>>> To: biofuel <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>>>>>>>> Subject: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use >>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuel mailing list >>> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ >>> biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>> >>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>> >>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>> messages): >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuel mailing list >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ >> biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> messages): >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuel mailing list >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ >> biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> messages): >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/ > attachments/20070304/c2a96e05/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 08:57:48 -0700 > From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use > To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On 3/4/07, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Hello Wendell >> >> <snip> >> >>> By the way, I seem to recall that termites are the source >>> of 20 percent of the world's methane. I am no entomologist --is >>> there any known benefit to man or beast from termites? >>> If not, let's get 'em! > > > > I think alot better arguement could be made that there is no known > benefit > to the planet from Humans, and we should go get 'em. Oh, except that > you > can't ask a human this question because they are not a neutral > observer. > > Right, let's kill them all! Termite-caused global warming has to be >> stopped in its tracks. There can't be anything important about >> termites anyway, I mean they only produce 20% of the world's methane >> after all, and only about two-thirds of the world's dead plants go >> through termites in the organic matter cycle, obviously they're >> totally useless to man and beast. Anyway, if we can wipe them out and >> lose that methane maybe we can go right on guzzle-guzzle-guzzling for >> a few days or weeks longer before we hit Cold Turkey time on the >> fossil fuels. What do you think we should use, DDT or malathion? >> >> What about the methane from wild ruminants, you forgot about them - >> there are millions and millions of antelope and wildebees in the >> Serengeti for instance, if we don't go right in there and kill them >> they'll just go right on farting. >> >> Same applies to all these useless creatures, if they can't live >> without being so irresponsible then they just have to go. >> >> Nature knows best, and if Nature was capable of making these >> decisions for herself she wouldn't have given us brains to do it for >> her, right? >> >> Best >> >> Keith >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/ > attachments/20070304/30b831e6/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 11:41:52 -0500 > From: "Fred Oliff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] the 'Inconvenient Truth' > To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > > > >> <snip?> >> I think alot better arguement could be made that there is no known >> benefit >> to the planet from Humans, and we should go get 'em. Oh, except >> that you >> can't ask a human this question because they are not a neutral >> observer. > > > looks like we are well on our way to doing just that. but let's not "go > gently into that good night" without at least some fight. no more wars > except against global warming, eh? > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ > biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > > End of Biofuel Digest, Vol 23, Issue 13 > *************************************** > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
