Hi Joe, A worthy question indeed: how to attain a fair society? That John Seed guy has an enormous following, including our daughter (who lives on MorningGlory Farm, featured in today's Toronto Star, and is also a student at U of W). When she comes home she always goes though an intense culture shock: we are wasteful, we don't listen carefully enough, we are not as willing to pitch in on a daily project. The collective is a paradise for her of uplifting co-operation.
Sounds like 'Multitude' is a must read... The Borg you refer to at the end of your letter were self-serving, weren't they? And vulnerable to viruses... (Same combat technique worked for Jeff Goldblum in Independance Day.) Think: what would Neo do? Jesse --- Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Keith; > > I agree with you about the discussion around > handguns in the US. It > will not be a productive rant/argument anywhere and > will quickly > degenerate into a shouting match. But can we have a > more general > discussion on the concept of force because it is a > very important issue > to me in a more general sense. I would consider > myself a pacifist > (funny how that word contains 'fist') and I would > also defend myself or > someone who needed help but I would prefer the world > worked by > communication and care and consideration for each > other. I have offered > my opinion here before that if ANYONE is to have > nukes for example, that > everyone should have them, just out of a desire for > everyone to have > equal consideration at the bargaining table. I'd > rather they were > banished from existence on the planet and maybe one > day we will. The > book I have been harping on called Multitude offers > a shining ray of > hope for that world to exist through a new directly > democratic social > order based on networking. I'd like to discuss the > problem of how we get > from a world which is ruled by bullies where one > could argue that you > better have might or get crushed, to the more > advanced and mature > society which is based on things like compassion, > consideration of > others, fairness for all, open communication, etc > etc? This is > definitely a question about sustainability. > > John Seed came to town recently on his global tour > offering hope for > people needing motivation from dispair. We talked > about many global > issues both social and environmental and I didn't > come away from that > meeting feeling particularly inspired or that some > really practical > information was offered on how to adress these > issues in ways that have > real tangible results like today. My expectation did > not match with the > reality of what was being offered there. There have > been some cases > where groups have organized in the style outlined in > Multitude to > achieve a common purpose and in many cases it did > unfortunately due to > the circumstances involve some violence. There are > many challenges that > face such a reorganization not the least of which is > the presence of the > party which carries the big stick (and hasn't been > walking so softly). > To my way of thinking in order for a more peaceful > model to come about > and reach some sustainable steady state, one of the > biggest hurdles > that has to be overcome is how to deal with the > power which is based in > violence. It seems like having to get over the > crest of a hill before > you can get to easy sailing on the way down the > other side. There are > many many challenges that we face on this planet as > a species right > now. These are the 'interesting times' refered to > in that ancient > chinese curse I guess. I feel quite confident that > all of these issues > can be sorted out democratically on a global scale > but before that can > happen power needs to be wrested away from those who > hate the idea of > distributed power. Is there a non violent way to do > this? Perhaps it is > the economic power of the consumer which is the > ultimate weapon against > this hierarchical power structure afterall it is > this very collective > force which has been the tool, or rather the pawn of > the power brokers > in the first place, and that which has allowed them > to seize such an > inordinate measure of might. > > If the hope for the future hinges on networking > large numbers of > concerned and motivated individuals, then this ( the > web) is an obvious > place for the power to grow. There have been > discussions about some > centralized groups aligning to seize control of > information and the > network backbones. I have been uneasy about this > but lately I have been > having other thoughts. In the mean time the googles > and the you tubes > and cisco's of the world have been building the very > infrastructure that > the multitude requires to grow and take shape into > the entity Noam > Chomsky refers to as 'The other world superpower". > Well that entity may > exist but so far it has been fairly toothless. But > people are using this > infrastructure just the same and the > interconnectedness, expression and > sharing is happening. Networks of connections > between people with > common interests are forming as a result of the > investments these > agencies are making in the infrastructure. I am > wondering if there is > less cause for alarm? If a monopoly was to come > about trying to control > the information network what would be the result? > If it became > unreasonably expensive or information was somehow > censored or > restricted, would the multitude allow it? Concerned > hackers have > already shown there are ways around any effort to > centrally control the > e-world. Is it possible that the greedy efforts of > these corporations > are building a system which will inevitably defeat > thier aims of total > control? I hope so. The mightiest power of all is > the power of the > collective. Resistance is futile. You will be > assimilated. LOL > Thoughts? > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list > archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > Jesse Frayne itsdinner.ca Neighbourhood catering and general joie de livre Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
