Hello Mike >Thanks, I thought so.
I didn't. >These are 18-20 of Santomauro's piece.Which question(s) are you asking? This is the question that was asked: > >>This is the nub of the matter. Why is this subject banned from >discussion in > >>11 countries (with a 12th about to come on line i.e. the recent American > >>"hate speech" law which sailed through Congress) and why do otherwise > >>apparently sane and intelligent people suddenly go la-la when asked to > >>contemplate the anomalies? What's the excuse for this taboo? Such things didn't go amiss four centuries ago when the Earth stood still and the sun moved around it because that's what it says in the Bible and to question that meant being sent to Gitmo, um, the Inquisition, but we're supposed to have grown out of that kind of stuff by now. Except for this one case. Why is that? Is it something that we should accept? The further question was whether the taboo is used as a cover to stifle criticism of something just as heinous, Israel's brutal oppression of the Palestinians. There's no doubt that it is so used. That Israel can do no wrong because of the Holocaust is simply untenable, but that's the way it is - question Israel and kiss your career goodbye, question the official Holocaust dogma and risk being jailed. Let's get this straight please: I'm not saying and haven't said that the official version isn't true, I haven't questioned it. You're not allowed to question it, which makes it dogma whether it's true or not. That's what I'm questioning, because of all the victims - not just the Palestinians, much has been written recently on Israel's role in the Iraq disaster, and in the downright terrifying push for an encore in Iran, along with an endless stream of more "minor" atrocities such as this: http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/15/4541/ Published on Monday, October 15, 2007 by Inter Press Service What 'Safe' Cluster Bombs Do In Lebanon Jenin, Sabra, Shatila... All very much enabled by the Holocaust taboo. It's about the most dangerous thing in the world, there's no excuse for it. Bob also said "sane and intelligent people suddenly go la-la" over this subject, indeed they do. Hakan said this yesterday in a reply to Peter: >It is a very worrying discussion line, from denial to how the >Israelis have used it as alibi for their own >war crimes. It is however very important that all will be a part of >the future history in a correct way, >but as it is said "it takes 100 years to write history". Concerning >WWI we are almost there and >it is not far to WWII. But then he says this: >... I have no reason >to express doubts as you do. I even have the right and experiences to >be upset about what you >are saying and consider you as a dangerous person. How are we to arrive at the future history in a correct way if expressing doubts makes you a dangerous person? Surely the truth can withstand doubts and questions, if it requires this kind of protection then it's to be doubted that it's the truth. Which is just what happens. Otherwise, to use your examples, why don't we start jailing global warming deniers, or Iraq war dissenters? (Oh sorry, we're already doing that last one.) Hence Santomauro's points 18 to 20. Questioning the Holocaust dogma dishonors the victims and belittles their sufferings we're told. But it's difficult to imagine a worse abuse of the victims and their sufferings than the ongoing atrocities conducted under cover of this taboo. It's those who defend it who're in denial. But "Israel has the right to exist" - further denial: Israel has the right to co-exist, and if it can't learn to do that then it has no rights. Same as the white South Africans (another of your examples). Anyone who's thinking of jerking their knee my way because of this should please read this first: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg35355.html Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith 3 Jun 2004 Best Keith >18) Why has Holocaust Revisionism been criminalized in at least eleven >countriesÖwhat other historic truth needs the threat of prison or the >destruction of one's career to maintain itself. Should someone be sent >to prison for expressing skepticism about the official Chinese claim >that they suffered thirty-five million dead in World War II. > >19) Why do the court historians insist that "denying the Holocaust" is >like denying slavery or saying the earth is flat when it is nothing of >the sort. The leading Revisionists are first rate scholars who hold >advanced degrees from the world's leading universities. Is there anyone >comparable among those who say the world is flat or that slavery never >existed? > >20) Promoters of the Holocaust have expressed concerns about the >remembering the Holocaust once the last survivors die. Why haven't Civil >War historians expressed similar concerns since the last survivor of >that conflict died in 1959? > > > > > >Keith Addison wrote: > > >Hello Mike > > > >Nice bit bit of ol' wartime jingoism you dragged up there eh? That'll > >help a lot. > > > >What it doesn't help do though is hide the fact that for all this > >flailing about you still haven't answered the question, since it was > >you Bob put it to in the first place. So I'll ask it again, right > >here at the top: > > > > > > > >>>>... But in fact it begs the question, > >>>>posed in items 18-20 of Santomauro's piece. > >>>>This is the nub of the matter. Why is this subject banned from > >>>> > >>>> > >>discussion in > >> > >> > >>>>11 countries (with a 12th about to come on line i.e. the recent American > >>>>"hate speech" law which sailed through Congress) and why do otherwise > >>>>apparently sane and intelligent people suddenly go la-la when asked to > >>>>contemplate the anomalies? > >>>>... Over the years I have come to wonder if perhaps the Holocaust > >>>>story has been > >>>>used to weave a political hair shirt to keep likely dissenters in > >>>> > >>>> > >>line while > >> > >> > >>>>another holocaust - an ever-increasing obscenity of more than 50 years > >>>>standing - is pursued with even more inhuman zeal than ever fascism could > >>>>summon to its cause. > >>>> > >>>> > > > >Last time you said this: > > > > > > > >>What's next? A cut and paste proof > >>that global warming is a hoax? The war in Iraq is about liberation? > >>Apartheid didn't happen? > >> > >> > > > >This time: > > > > > > > >>Next up: Clearing the record on slavery, Stalin, Belgium in the > >>Congo, war in Iraq, and heck, why not Darfur? > >> > >> > > > >Why not Palestine? > > > >Whether begged or raised, why not drop all the obfuscation and just > >answer the question? > > > >Best > > > >Keith > > > > > > > > > > > >>What I can't stand is when someone says "begs the question" when they > >>mean "raise the question." Begging the question describes a logical > >>fallacy. > >> > >>As for "political hair shirt" - that's too obtuse for comment. > >> > >>"Having survived the Allied firebombing of his native > >>city of Pforzheim as a child, Zundel was well familiar > >>with the war crimes of the hypocritical Allies and he > >>made it his life's work to clear the name of his own > >>people. For this commendable enterprise," > >> > >>Clearing Germany of culpability for the deaths of jews, Gypsies, > >>homosexuals and other "undesirables" is indeed commendable. > >> > >>Next up: Clearing the record on slavery, Stalin, Belgium in the > >>Congo, war in Iraq, and heck, why not Darfur? > >> > >>Besides, Noel Coward is way ahead of you on Germany: > >> > >>*Don't Let's Be Beastly To The Germans - Noel Coward* > >> > >>Verse 1 > >> > >>We must be kind > >>And with an open mind > >>We must endeavour to find > >>A way- > >>To let the Germans know that when the war is over > >>They are not the ones who'll have to pay. > >>We must be sweet- > >>And tactful and discreet <snip> _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
