Hello Tom, > Thank you so much for your post. Nice of you to say. > Regarding refrigeration: it is a significant energy user and when watts > are precious we take notice. My solution is quite simple in our cold > climate of Northern New Hampshire USA where it is colder more than > warmer than refrigeration temperatures. {snip}
Your solution makes perfect sense. Why use those precious watts to cool something when there's plenty of cool on the other side of the wall? > Small, personal innovation can produce satisfaction beyond savings. > How nice that is. Well said. Tom K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Thiel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] interesting refrigerator > Hi Tom, > > Thank you so much for your post. > We've been "way back" for 5 years and the decision tree is quite > different from that of the plug in culture. > > Regarding refrigeration: it is a significant energy user and when watts > are precious we take notice. My solution is quite simple in our cold > climate of Northern New Hampshire USA where it is colder more than > warmer than refrigeration temperatures. I put the refrigerator in an > insulated cavity on an outside wall with vents (manually operated) to > allow more and/or less access to outside air. The primary purpose of > regulation was to keep the refrigerator from freezing. Since the > refrigerator itself is also insulated, it averages temperatures over > time and freezing has not been a problem, so vent operation is very > minimal. In summer the (normal electric) refrigerator blows its waste > heat (and noise) outside. Spring and Fall, the compressor sometimes > comes on and works efficiently against cool outdoor temperatures. > > I'm installing a small chest freezer using same principles. I had ruled > out a freezer due to excessive power consumption before the "north > wall" concept. > > Small, personal innovation can produce satisfaction beyond savings. How > nice that is. > > Tom Thiel > > On 10 Jan, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: > >> Hi Chip, >> You wrote: >>> And yes, for the record, I am not a big fan of 'payback costs' >>> when it comes to passive vs utility consumption. >>> >>> When the power goes out, passive systems continue to work. >> >> Some aspects of "payback" can be difficult to quantify or even >> anticipate. >> >> Gardening: >> Shovel $37 (US) >> Rake ($26) >> Pitchfork ($32) >> Hoe ($30) >> Small Hand Tools ($76) >> Seeds/Plants $__, etc. >> The experience of gardening; growing your own food: Priceless. >> >> While one could argue that vegetable gardening is "profitable", >> what >> about flower gardens? What about people who grow fruits and vegetables >> and >> give most of them away w/o concern for "payback period"? >> Some things that are simply joyful ... as in full of joy. We take >> joy >> in doing them.. Some take joy in the little dollops of independence >> that we >> feel by producing our own food or by getting off the grid. I wouldn't >> know >> how to put a price on joy or independence. >> It certainly is an "interesting refrigerator". When I see a >> creative >> idea/design implemented by human hands it takes on the qualities of >> art. >> Pouring a cold glass of milk from the "interesting refrigerator" >> ..... >> priceless. >> >> Not so much to jump on the question re; payback period for the >> refrigerator; it is a valid question. They did mention in the section >> "Solar >> Electricity" that they would have had to pay $30,000 to run wiring to >> their >> home. It might be that given their situation, the "interesting >> refrigerator" >> made perfect economical sense as well; another example of appropriate >> technology. >> >> Thanks for the original post Kirk. I've been playing around with >> some >> ideas for at least pre-heating water going to my boiler (heat & hot >> water)using a solar collector and maybe even my woodstove, to lower the >> amount of fuel I use. >> Tom >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chip Mefford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org> >> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:01 AM >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] interesting refrigerator >> >> >>> John Mullan wrote: >>>> I've seen that before. Excellent idea. I wonder how much all that >>>> copper, insulation, etc. would cost (for purpose of payback period)? >>> >>> When calculating the 'payback period' be sure to deduct (or add) >>> the cost of a couple of medium term power outages, as folks all >>> across the mid-west have seen over the last few winters. >>> >>> And yes, for the record, I am not a big fan of 'payback costs' >>> when it comes to passive vs utility consumption. >>> >>> When the power goes out, passive systems continue to work. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuel mailing list >>> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel >>> >>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>> >>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 >>> messages): >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuel mailing list >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 >> messages): >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/