Hi David and All ;
Wow, I am impressed. I feel I have some answers for you, I will offer them up
if I may, the other folks on the list may not be ready to listen and
understand.
> So here's the problem: If He had the powers you appear
> to believe He had
> (and that I believe He had), then why would He have let
> mankind come to
> it's present difficulties, or to any difficulty, for
> that matter,
> regardless of scope or era or proximate cause? It would
> seem that either
> these problems are unnecessary and God is cruel for
> allowing them to
> exist (a conclusion that many have reached, often as a
> waystation to
> becoming an atheist), or that there is a fundamental reason
> why doubt,
> danger and difficulties are a necessary part of the human
> condition.
I believe your second postulate is close to target. There is a fundamental
reason.
> This is a very difficult question indeed. It seems to me,
> however, that
> there is no courage unless there is danger, no faith
> without a context
> of doubt, and nothing for which to strive except to
> overcome
> difficulties in achieving better ends. (Although quite
> frankly this is
> only part of the answer-- the outside surface of a great
> mystery-- since
> while these things are true, they don't reach all the
> way to such issues
> as why children suffer and starve, for example.)
Yes they do if you think it through. When I was a teaching assistant at
college I at first wanted to pass everyone, but then I realized : How can it be
possible for anyone to be a star if everyone passes and no one fails? If I
make a test super easy and everyone gets a perfect grade, how can I
differentiate between the excellent students and bad? Answer: I can't. I
need a bell curve to seperate the good students from the bad. I need to fail
some to allow some to shine.
And secondly : If the students all know that I will give them the super easy
test, how many excellent students will emerge from my class? Answer : none.
The test NEEDS to be tough. An easy test accomplishes nothing. Tough tests
result in more students who are excellent, and yes some failures.
The world must be a tough place to allow the Saints to be revealed, and this
includes suffering of children and everyone else. Suffering sets the stage for
our test.
> Suppose that Christ or God did change human
> nature so that
> evil was impossible; or suppose They had created a world in
> which it was
> impossible to injure yourself or others; or a world in
> which truth was
> self-evident, entirely and to everyone; a world where it
> was impossible
> to suffer or starve. Impossible to lie, impossible to be
> injured or die;
> impossible to suffer; impossible even to consider the
> possibility of
> evil. What kind of world would that be? What kind of people
> would we be?
> Good... for nothing?
Excellent point. Yes good for nothing, certainly not good for Christ's master
plan. This is the easy test scenario which, as discussed above, accomplishes
nothing.
> In my view Christ did not offer technology because it was
> more or less
> irrelevant to the point He was making, which was quite
> simply that we
> should all practice the Golden Rule, or the Noble Eightfold
> Way, or the
> prescriptions of the other Great Teachers, all of Whom, as
> has been said
> here, taught essentially the same thing. As you imply,
> that's the
> purpose of life.
OK David you might be right, but I can still ask a simple question. Leprosy
was causing HUGE suffering, hardship, and sorrow at the time. Why did Christ
not offer a simple cure to alleviate the suffering? I can only conclude that
He must have felt that the suffering was preferred to the technological fix.
Being a technical guy, this is a sobering point for me.
> Therefore as you know, the rest gets added
> if we just
> do those things, and the rest becomes a source of sorrow
> and pain if we
> do not, as anyone's own experience and the world's
> history bear witness.
> That line of thinking, of course, puts the onus back on us,
> although
> again without answering the question.
The question can be answered and it is much bigger than you think. In order to
understand the whole picture you must first ponder and answer another question
: Why did Christ not retaliate for any of the evil done to him?
In other words, hanging on the cross MUST HAVE HURT. Now sure, a lot of people
have been crucified, but NONE were ever crucified for no reason (except to
offer the gift of life), and who had the option to come down from the cross.
Think about it. It was the ultimate wrong, and He took it right to the end
without a single complaint. Who would allow themselves to be crucifed and
suffocated to the end if they had the choice to come down off the cross? I am
SURE I could not have done that.
Christ demonstrated the ultimate subjugation to the evil that was done to Him
for no reason. Why did He allow it? (This message was beautifully portrayed
in the movie "Passion"). There is a very compelling reason. If you can
answer this question then you can understand why the world MUST be exactly the
way it is.
> Yet, really, given that we, puny
> humans, cannot modify the fact what is possible, nor fathom
> the mind of
> God, surely it's a good deal more productive to be
> concerned with the
> human condition than a list of philosophical conundrums.
>
I am a trained problem solver and I have pondered these questions for a long
time. They seemingly make no sense, but there is one one way that everything
makes perfect sense, a perfect plan : When you listen to Christ's words and
understand what the test is for.
BR
Peter G.
Thailand
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