Keith I agree with you so I believe we should put our strenghts in helping people who really need and want help. And this is not being cinic but pragmatic. Israel do not need help. A norganized state has the right of self defense and the obligation to defend israelians no matter if they are 20% of the population ( israelian muslim arab ) or jewish israelians.Those who support terrorist organization transvestide of a government made their choice they do not want help. They have broken themselves in two pieces weakening themselves. remeber jwesh were forced to leave Gaza by the njwesh govrnmwenr and this piece of land returned to their true owner ; the palestinian with no string attached by Ariel Sharon - a falcon... I wish to remind a converstion (which became public ) between Mr. Clinton and Mr. Arafat - who did presented unsurmountable requirements to create the Palestinian state: Arafat: Congratulations for your efforts towards peace Mr. Clinton Clinton: I think it was trhe gratest failure in my life - in the past, today and in the future - and I unfortunally have to thank you for it... ---------- Cabeçalho original -----------
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Para: [email protected] Cópia: Data: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 01:09:11 +0900 Assunto: Re: [Biofuel] Eyeless in Gaza > >I said they have a "shity" hand so are the Saharawis with UN > >resolution and all, the Dafurians and they have much more deaths, > >Tibetans and Weigers in Shinjian, and on and on.... so yes, poor > >them, but I find it very cynical, if you look at this conflict > >objectively it is pretty small, > > If you look at its history and also at some of the implications and > further ambitions and plans and hopes and indeed prayers of various > parties it's not small at all. > > >but hey it looks good on TV! > > In most countries maybe but not in all. > > "Lights Out in Gaza, News Blackout in US", 30 Dec 2008: ... "A column > by Israeli Gideon Levy in Haaretz, entitled 'The neighborhood bully > strikes again' [i.e. Israel], could never appear in a paper in the > U.S." > <http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/12/30-10> > > "The neighborhood bully strikes again", by Gideon Levy > <http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050459.html> > > "The [Palestinian] Kassam [rockets] have terrorized the 25,000 people > in Sderot and its environs, but have caused very, very few deaths or > serious wounds. By contrast, Israel has terrorized 1.5 million > Gazans, locked them inside their awfully narrow borders, throttled > their economy, and killed and seriously wounded thousands of them..." > -- Larry Derfner, Jerusalem Post, quoted in "The truth about those > Hamas rockets", by Dennis Rahkonen > <http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_4186.shtml> > > We've been through all that before - is one genocide/holocaust worse > than another genocide/holocaust if more people get killed? Two > comments from previous discussions: "Genocides are a dime a dozen > these days", and "Even one death is too many!" > > >Someone said that a century from now when people look at what > >happened in Africa they will say much worse things of what we said > >now of the holocust "how could they let it happen!" > > Conflict in Africa is indeed more lethal, but I think the scholars of > a century from now might be more aware of the manipulation behind it, > of "disaster capitalism" if you like, and of Chomsky's manufacturing > of consent. Conflicts in Africa get a tiny fraction of the coverage > in the main media that conflicts in Europe or the Middle East get. > Now why would that be? Because the readers/viewers aren't interested? > Oh? And why would THAT be? Anyway, is one genocide/holocaust worse > than another genocide/holocaust if it gets more media coverage, or > less coverage? > > >I would be more worry of what is going to happend when the europians > >start getting cold and Putin said hell no I am not open the gas > >valve..... THAT IS A CONFLICT IN THE MAKING, > > Oh, well that's okay then, we don't have to worry about the > Palestinians anymore, we can worry about that instead. > > >or may be no and some of the politicians start reading about renewal > >energyies... like our old friend Yoda said "the future is uncertain" > > That's like saying water's wet. Whatever, you sure shifted your > ground, from eyeless in Gaza to gasless in Europe. It didn't > disappear though. > > >Sorry if I am THIS cynical. > > Of course you can be as cynical as you wish, but it falls a little > flat if you don't get your facts right first, as with your view of > Hamas, and of Gaza. > > >Happy New Year, I hope! > > Thankyou, and to you. > > Keith > > > >Ivan > > > >> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:17:08 +0900 > >> To: [email protected] > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Eyeless in Gaza > >> > >> Hello Ivan and all > >> > >> >I think the deal for the Palestinians is "shitty" to say the > >>least, but that > >> >is how live goes.... > >> > > >> >But on every part of the world, when you poke a finger in somebody, much > >> >bigger than you, right or wrongly, at the end, what you are going to get > >> is > >> >a mouth full of fist. Farther more, the Palestinians want what? > >>they can not > >> >even make up their mind of what they want, IF they would organized > >> >themselves correctly (like the Jews did after WWII) > >> > >> Right, nothing like a bit of ethnic cleansing. (I think you mean the > >> Zionists, not the Jews - not necessarily the same.) "And yes, if a > > > few die, of a strange reaction, so be it." (Ivan) > >> > >> >and not put on > >> >government a bunch of terrorist, you probably would of seen a different > > > >result. > >> > >> (a) They won the election, which was heavily monitored, and declared > >> as free and fair. > >> > >> (b) Both the US and Israel helped to create Hamas (but, hey, never > >> mind, what's yet another bit of blowback among friends). > >> > >> >I do neither say it is right or wrong, I just say I see it reasonable > >> that > >> >if you pick on me for very long time and I am the big boy and I > >>tell you 100 > >> >times, one day, I am like, "I am tired of this ant......" > >> > >> Oh, now I get it - you mean like Cuba picks on the US? > >> > >> Keith > >> > >> >Watch the Doha discussions about this theme, they are very interesting, > >> and > >> >the TV program is in DOHA! > >> > > >> >Ivan > >> > > >> > > >> >-------------------------------------------------- > >> >From: "robert and Benita" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> >Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:39 AM > >> >To: <[email protected]> > >> >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Eyeless in Gaza > >> > > >> >> bmolloy wrote: > >> >> > >> >>>Keith, > >> >>> > >> >>> I realise our main focus is biofuel but nevertheless I am grieved > >> >>>that no-one has seen fit to at least comment on the ongoing genocide in > >> >>>Gaza. Are we now one-eyed, or worse, eyeless? > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> No. You're not the only one who is grieving over this. > >> >> > >> >> I get a newsletter from a certain Messianic group who claim that Mr. > >> >> Obama will force Israel to accommodate the Palestinians and the Syrians > >> >> in a "land for peace" swap. According to this newsletter: > >> >> > >> >> "The time of Israel's punishment is just about (hosei) fulfilled. > >> >> The 390 years that Ezekiel prophesied for Israel's chastisement for > >> >> rampant paganism and blatant disregard for Torah, was not answered with > >> >> the requisite repentance (Ezekiel 4:1-17). Moses pre-scribed the cure: > >> >> Our punishment would be multiplied seven times (Leviticus 26). > >> According > >> >> to the calculations I have performed using Bishop Usher's usually > >> >> accurate chronological dating, Israel was carried away captive by > >> >> Assyria in 722 B.C.E. Ezekiel's prophecy of 390 years of languishing in > >> >> exile was multiplied seven times according to Moses' prophetic formula > >> - > >> >> a total of 2730 years - which takes us through the year 2009. It is > >> >> sobering to recall that according to my interpretation of the third > >> >> layer of Daniel's seventy sevens prophecy, I am expecting thermonuclear > >> >> war to erupt in the mid-east in the middle of 2010." > >> >> > >> >> According to this view, such an action will precipitate Armageddon > >> >> and usher in the parousia of Christ. > >> >> > >> >> Mind you, I'm pretty devout as far as my Christianity is concerned, > >> >> and I'm looking for Jesus to return. But THIS kind of thing is what > >> >> blinds people to the reality of suffering that's going on over there. > >> >> Raise your voice about nearly 500 Palestinian deaths, and you'll be > >> >> shouted down as a terrorist sympathizer. Complain about the heavy, > >> >> disproportionate Israeli military response and your voice will be > >> >> drowned out in a sea of anger over modified rockets that Hamas > >> militants > >> >> are launching into Israel. > >> >> > >> >> Or ARE Hamas militants responsible? > >> >> > >> >> Hmm . . . > >> >> > >> >> I've read somewhere that we're supposed to love our enemies and care > >> >> for their needs. If we would actually DO what Jesus ordered us to do, > >> >> our world would be a very different place. > >> >> > >> >> robert luis rabello > >> >> "The Edge of Justice" > >> >> "The Long Journey" > >> > > New Adventure for Your Mind > >> >> http://www.newadventure.ca > >> >> > >> >> Ranger Supercharger Project Page > > > > > http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > [email protected] > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list [email protected] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
