Well we will disagree again. In the last 8 years of being involved with many
people and health groups on the internet, you are the only person whom
didn't seem to understand that yeast was a fungus and that the major part of
the
immune system is in the digestive system. And as owner of group for
Environmental Illnesses I get many questions every day not only from groups
but also
from organizations.
I could point out that science is a big subject or subjects
and as you have not been very specific as to what area you write about, do
not see the relevance.
>You posted it in html format, so it was much bigger than necessary
>and exceeded the server limit. The server stopped the message and the
>List administration wrote to you explaining why it was stopped and
>asked you to send it again in plain text/ASCII. Don't you know how to
>send a plain text message? It's a requirement on a mailing list, not
>only because of all the bloat but because html-coded messages can and
>do carry viruses, and plain text messages don't.
Well as far as that goes, no I don't know how to send posts in plain
test/ASCII . I have belonged & posted to 2 different mailing lists which are
similar
to this one for over 8 years and not once has anybody said anything about
this. [And of coarse I belong to many yahoo groups but they are another kettle
of fish compared to this list.] Plain Test ASCII seems to be a requirement
only on this list. But that is okay; different owners, different
rules.................
I am truely not interested in debating this immune sytem issue, so I am
just going to post a whole bunch of urls and let you read them. These were
certainly not hard to find, I just did not have them on hand. These are not
the
ones that caused me to believe that the imume system is mostly in your
digestive system but those ones are on my old computer and for many reasons
the
information has not been transferred to this computer yet. It has been at
least
4 years or longer since I needed to check out this info.
Gastrointestinal Tract
The gastrointestinal tract is also a prominent part of the immune system.[3]
The low pH (ranging from 1 to 4) of the stomach is fatal for many
microorganisms that enter it. Similarly, mucus (containing IgA antibodies)
neutralizes
many of these microorganisms. Other factors in the GI tract help with immune
function as well, including enzymes in the saliva and bile. Enzymes such as
Cyp3A4, along with the antiporter activities, are also instrumental in the
intestine's role of detoxification of antigens and xenobiotics, such as drugs,
involved in first pass metabolism. Health-enhancing intestinal bacteria serve
to prevent the overgrowth of potentially harmful bacteria in the gut.
Microorganisms are also kept at bay by an extensive immune system comprising
the
gut-associated lymphoid tissue (GALT).
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastrointestinal_tract_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastrointestinal_tract)
Nutrition and the immune system of the gut.
Studies suggest that the development and expression of the regional immune
system in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract is relatively independent of
systemic immunity. This is reflected in significant differences in functional
response of T cells and B cells and affects cytokine patterns and activation
pathways when regional immunity is compared to systemic immunity.
_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9684259_
(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9684259)
HIV Hiding from Drugs in Gut, Preventing Immune Recovery
Gut-associated lymphoid tissue accounts for 70 percent of the body’s immune
system. Restoring its function is crucial to ridding the body of the virus.”
_http://www.physorg.com/news73573729.html_
(http://www.physorg.com/news73573729.html)
Under Surveillance:
The gut's immune system
_http://www.sciencemag.org/sciext/gut/papers/surveillance.dtl_
(http://www.sciencemag.org/sciext/gut/papers/surveillance.dtl)
Immunity, Inflammation, and Allergy in the Gut
In both mouse and man, mutations in genes that control innate immune
recognition, adaptive immunity, and epithelial permeability are all associated
with
gut inflammation.
_http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/short/307/5717/1920_
(http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/short/307/5717/1920)
The Gut: Inside Out
The gut epithelium and the associated mucosal immune system act as the
mediators between the host and its symbiotic flora, and as MacDonald and
Monteleone (p. 1920) discuss, different factors that interrupt this interplay
can lead
to inflammatory disorders of the gut. Despite the gut's extensive
surveillance system, intestinal pathogens can wreak havoc,
_http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/sci;307/5717/1895_
(http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/sci;307/5717/1895)
The Development of Gut Immune Responses and Gut Microbiota: Effects of
Probiotics in Prevention and Treatment of Allergic Disease
_http://www.horizonpress.com/ciim/abstracts/v3/02.html_
(http://www.horizonpress.com/ciim/abstracts/v3/02.html)
_http://www.horizonpress.com/ciim/v/v3/02.pdf_
(http://www.horizonpress.com/ciim/v/v3/02.pdf)
Leaky Gut / Intestinal Permeability and Enzymes
The largest part of the immune system in our body is in the mucosal lining
in the gut. The immune system makes sure all those undesirable elements do not
get across into the bloodstream to begin with. The intestines are permeable
to a certain degree so the proper nutrients get through.
_http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionleakygut.htm_
(http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionleakygut.htm)
best wishes
Shan
Re: [Biofuel] Probiotics & Immunity: A Beautiful Partnership
Keith Addison
Wed, 18 Mar 2009 05:36:10 -0700
Hello Shan
>You do ask questions that nobody else asks, Keith.
I don't think so... Perhaps not very many people make the comparison
I made between the gut flora and the soil microlife, though they're
intimately related, but what I said about the digestive system and
the immune system isn't controversial.
I think you've got it all back to front though. Your Dr. Brenda
Watson also got it back to front, which is why I commented, and her
"kill the pathogens" approach just doesn't work.
Um, you didn't answer my question.
>...........keeps me on my
>toes so to speak...
But you're putting the cart before the horse, IMHO, and saying quite
a lot of right things for the wrong reasons.
> Yes, 80% of your immune system is in your digestive systme.
I disagree.
>This is partly why those that are ill with most major illnesses will
>also have
>digestive problems which they probably got before they got their illness
That's so, they usually do, but your explanation for it isn't the
reason for that.
>regardless if it is cancer, MS, Parkinson's, whatever. When you have any
>digestive problem even if it "seems" minor such as frequent
>burping, passing gas,
>mild acid reflux etc then your immune system is compromised.
Not necessarily so, your digestive system might be compromised, but
any effect on your immune system is not that direct, it also depends
on many other factors.
>This is also
>another reason why it is not a good idea to have any surgury that
>messes with or
>takes out part of your digestive system.
It may be necessary, but indeed generally it's not a grand idea,
though again not for that reason, any effect on the immune system
would depend on how the surgery affected the digestion itself, and
the metabolism of the nutrients a healthy immune system requires.
>And why if one has a digestive
>condition then in my opinion, it is very important to deal with it
>and heal it.
Well yes of course, but you're not proving anything. All these things
might be so, but they're so anyway, they don't confirm your idea that
80% of the immune system is in the digestive system.
>It leads to other things............ that eveyone would rather
>avoid..........I also get rather emphatic about not eating processed
>food of any kind, nor
>GM foods, etc These are all hard on your digestive system. Therefor effect
>your immune system..........
Yes, there is indeed that relationship. We were saying when we
started all this in 1982 that all diseases are nutritional diseases
and so on. While the functioning of the immune system depends on the
quality metabolism of real food in a healthy digestive system, to say
that the digestive system comprises the immune system or mostly so
like you're saying is like sitting on the horse backwards and
whipping the cart.
>In reality, there is no digestive condition that is
>minor in my opinion......... The good news though is that all digestive
>disorders can be remedied or healed. Only allopathic medicine is
>not going to
>tell you that.........
Allopathic, homeopathic, naturopathic or whatever-pathic, you have to
be equally well-informed to judge the worth of what you're told.
> Here is an article that I think that you will find interesting
>Keith. Especially given your unique perception of the digestive system.
I've read it before, I know Sally Fallon's work quite well. What
puzzles me about your referring to it is that she says the same as I
said, that it's a big hole right through your body, she even titled
it "The Long Hollow Tube: A Primer on the Digestive System", and she
says nothing about it comprising 80% of the immune system, or any
part of the immune system.
I'm not surprised you can't find any references to support your view
that 80% of the immune system is in the digestive system. That you
"suspect this is 'fact'" doesn't help much. Perhaps you should do
some basic homework, like reading this:
<_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system) >
Where it says, in the section on "Surface barriers" (such as the
skin): "In the stomach, gastric acid and proteases serve as powerful
chemical defenses against ingested pathogens."
Not a lot of leukocytes and B cells and T cells and so on to be found
in the gut, though they're what the immune system itself mostly
consists of, buttressed by the outer layers of defences the wikipedia
article describes. All the outer layers put together, including the
digestive tract, still couldn't be said to comprise 80% of the immune
system. The immune system itself is internal, the gut lining is
external.
The immune system itself has two parts, the innate immune system and
the adaptive immune system ("acquired immunity"). As Wikipedia says,
"The innate immune system is the dominant system of host defense in
most organisms." Including us. Not the digestive system.
I do know something of what I'm talking about, by the way. I've done
a fair amount of science writing and science editing for my living,
including work on immunology, published in good places.
>I tried
>to post it but it was too big evidently.
You posted it in html format, so it was much bigger than necessary
and exceeded the server limit. The server stopped the message and the
List administration wrote to you explaining why it was stopped and
asked you to send it again in plain text/ASCII. Don't you know how to
send a plain text message? It's a requirement on a mailing list, not
only because of all the bloat but because html-coded messages can and
do carry viruses, and plain text messages don't.
My question again - Dr Brenda Watson talks of immune cells in the
digestive tract:
> >The body's defenses are centered in the digestive tract where immune
cells
> >and probiotic bacteria team up to resist infection.
>
> There are immune cells in the digestive tract? What sort of immune cells?
Best
Keith
>The Long Hollow Tube: A Primer on the Digestive System
>By Sally Fallon and Mary G. Enig, PhD
>__http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/digestion_primer.html__
(http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/digestion_primer.html_)
>(_http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/digestion_primer.html_
(http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/digestion_primer.html) )
>
> I tried to find something that would specifically say for you how
>much of the immune system is in the digestive system but couldn't find
one. I
>suspect this is 'fact' just as yeast is a fungus is a fact..........
> I have several articles on digestive issues such as Irritable
>Bowel Sysdrome, Leaky Gut, Acid Reflux etc but thought the one
>above was more an
>all around reading.
>
> Yeast/fungus in our digestive track also has a practical & beneficial
use
>actually too. When we die, our bodies become very acidic and this acts like
>a trigger on the yeast and it grows. It is the yeast/fungus that causes our
>bodies to decompose when we die. This is not supposed to happen when we are
>alive . Candida is very unhealthy and bad for a living body.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090319/0f778cc6/attachment.html
_______________________________________________
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
