As someone else stated, when people are allowed to pay when they have a fire, then only people who have fires will pay. That does not work. Remember that rural fire coverage is not paid for by taxes (i am sure there are grants and such that people can make use of) but by the local fees. It takes a lot of payments (both in the number of people, and the years they pay them) to cover fires, as most people have less then 1 fire in their life on average.
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Tyler Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Except that $75 has very little to do with the actual cost of fighting the > fire; and accepting the money at the time of the fire would have done just as > much to offset the cost of the fire as accepting it earlier would have. So > saying the system works "if you pay" isn't quite true: the luckless resident > offered to pay, would have paid, could have paid -- so if the system works > "if you pay" then the system could have worked right then and there. But it > *didn't* work because the $75 and the refusal to put out the fire is nothing > more than a childish moral scold that benefits nobody, penalizes everybody, > and only gratifies the shriveled hearts of right-wing authoritarians. > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Dan Beukelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Sent: Dec 30, 2010 12:26 PM >>To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Alabama Town's Failed Pension is a >>Warning(NYT-article) >> >>The situation cited below is interesting. The person who’s house burned for >>$75.00 actually lived in the country. The rural residents don’t pay taxes >>for fire service (they could if they wanted to). So, since the rural >>residents didn’t want to tax themselves to provide a fire service a nearby >>town said they could provide to any individual that wanted to pay for it. >>This guys son had a house fire also, also hadn’t paid his $75.00 annual fee, >>but was allowed to pay it once the house caught on fire. Once that happened >>many people conveniently forgot, assuming that they could just pay when the >>fire happened, if no fire, save your $75.00. Anyway a new rule was >>implemented saying that if you don’t pay your $75.00 you are out of luck, >>that was done to encourage as many as possible to pay for this service and >>not wait until their home catches on fire. Had it not been for the nearby >>town offering fire service for a fee, no one would have responded. The >>neighbor to the guy who’s house burned, had paid his $75.00 and his house >>was protected from the fire spreading. The system actually works pretty >>good, if you pay, but these residents decided themselves that they didn’t >>need government provided fire service. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >>Doug >>Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 4:17 AM >>To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Alabama Town's Failed Pension is a >>Warning(NYT-article) >> >> >> >>Luckily , in Australia, virtually all the Rural Fire services are staffed by >>volunteers (although there are some paid positions in support areas, Govt >>funded). I live on rural acreage, & some fdunds go to the RFS as donations, >>but there is no compulsion. >> I was really surprised with the claim about US rural FS: Australia has on >>occasions sent brigades from Australia to help fight the big fires in the US >>(& >>the US has reciprocated for Australia on occasions). >> >> The insurance link to fire brigades also happened in Australia in the >>1800´s: >>there was a plaque attached to the front of the house proving you had >>insurance. (These are now a collectors item). House insurance now contains a >>levy that helps fund the Urban fire services. AS I stated, Rural Fire >>Services >>are volunteers, with some Govt funding for equipment & overheads. >> >>regards Doug >> >> >>On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 05:53:34 am Erik Lane wrote: >>> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 6:32 AM, Ivan Menchero >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: >>> > Ivan >>> > PS: I am surprise the have not privatize the fire department in the USA! >>> > so you pay a monthly "insurance' and if you do not pay and there is a >>> > fire in your house you are out of luck! >>> >>> Unfortunately there are at least some fire departments that already do >>work >>> like that. Here's a story about one that let a house burn, and the outrage >>> over it was slim to none, that I saw. I'm very disappointed in the way >>> things are going. >>> >>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/ >>> >>> >>> No pay, no spray: Firefighters let home burn Tennessee house in ashes >>> after homeowner 'forgot' to pay $75 fee >>> >>> Below: >>> 1. >>> - x >>> - >>> Jump to video People step up to help Gene Cranick >>> <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/#slice-2> >>> - video >>> <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/#slice-2> >>> 2. >>> - x Jump to vote Results below >>> <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/#slice-3> >>> - vote >>> <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/#slice-3> >>> 3. >>> - x Next story in Life Storm, blizzard warnings stretch along >>> Atlantic <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40810424/ns/weather/> >>> - related >>> <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/#slice-4> >>> >>> >>> - >>> - >>> >>> Advertisement | ad info <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26613008/> >>> msnbc.com msnbc.com >>> updated 10/6/2010 12:48:23 PM ET 2010-10-06T16:48:23 >>> >>> - Share <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> - Print <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/# >><http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/> > >>> - Font: >>> - + >>> - - >>> >>> Firefighters in rural Tennessee let a home burn to the ground last week >>> because the homeowner hadn't paid a $75 fee. >>> >>> Gene Cranick of Obion County and his family lost all of their possessions >>> in the Sept. 29 fire, along with three dogs and a cat. >>> >>> "They could have been saved if they had put water on it, but they didn't >>do >>> it," Cranick told MSNBC's Keith Olbermann. >>> >>> The fire started when the Cranicks' grandson was burning trash near the >>> family home. As it grew out of control, the Cranicks called 911, but the >>> fire department from the nearby city of South Fulton would not respond. >>> >>> "We wasn't on their list," he said the operators told him. >>> >>> Cranick, who lives outside the city limits, admits he "forgot" to pay the >>> annual $75 fee. The county does not have a county-wide firefighting >>> service, but South Fulton offers fire coverage to rural residents for a >>> fee. >>> >>> Cranick says he told the operator he would pay whatever is necessary to >>> have the fire put out. >>> advertisement | ad info <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26613008/> >>> Advertisement | ad info <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26613008/> >>> Advertisement | ad info <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26613008/> >>> >>> His offer wasn't accepted, he said. >>> >>> The fire fee policy dates back 20 or so years. >>> >>> "Anybody that's not inside the city limits of South Fulton, it's a service >>> we offer. Either they accept it or they don't," said South Fulton Mayor >>> David Crocker. >>> >>> The fire department's decision to let the home burn was "incredibly >>> irresponsible," said the president of an association representing >>> firefighters. >>> >>> "Professional, career firefighters shouldn’t be forced to check a list >>> before running out the door to see which homeowners have paid up," Harold >>> Schaitberger, International Association of Fire Fighters president, said >>in >>> a statement. "They get in their trucks and go." >>> >>> Firefighters did eventually show up, but only to fight the fire on the >>> neighboring property, whose owner had paid the fee. >>> Story: 'No pay, no spray' case: Firefighters 'threatened' >>> <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39535911/ns/us_news-life/> >>> >>> "They put water out on the fence line out here. They never said nothing to >>> me. Never acknowledged. They stood out here and watched it burn," Cranick >>> said. >>> >>> South Fulton's mayor said that the fire department can't let homeowners >>pay >>> the fee on the spot, because the only people who would pay would be those >>> whose homes are on fire. >>> >>> Cranick, who is now living in a trailer on his property, says his >>insurance >>> policy will help cover some of his lost home. >>> >>> "Insurance is going to pay for what money I had on the policy, looks like. >>> But like everything else, I didn't have enough." >>> >>> After the blaze, South Fulton police arrested one of Cranick's sons, >>> Timothy Allen Cranick, on an aggravated assault charge, according to >>> >>WPSD-TV<http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local/Firefighters-watch-as-home-bur >>> ns-to-the-ground-104052668.html>, an NBC station in Paducah, Ky. >>> >>> Police told WPSD that the younger Cranick attacked Fire Chief David Wilds >>> at the firehouse because he was upset his father's house was allowed to >>> burn. >>> >>> WPSD-TV reported that Wilds was treated and released. >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: /pipermail/attachments/20101226/f4d09f9b/attachment.html >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuel mailing list >>> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel >>> >>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>> >>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 >>> messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuel mailing list >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 >>messages): >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> _____ >> >>No virus found in this message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3343 - Release Date: 12/27/10 >> >>-------------- next part -------------- >>An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>URL: /pipermail/attachments/20101230/64f15c33/attachment.html >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuel mailing list >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
