Thanks Tim & David. I'd seen Tim cruise around and at red lights, buzzing around Ithaca. I have only recently seen the electric powered bikes at the Ithaca fest parade. Didn't realize how many electric bikes are in the neighborhood. I bike the 3 miles to work and back each day I use my bike but could use the boost to go downtown & rarely to the mall and back up the to Commonland on east hill. I'd like to find out more about both electric & gas boosters for bikes. Thanks Tony Del Plato
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Tim Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > David, > > I live at Longhouse Cooperative, right next to you, and had a similar > experience. I wanted to bike for years, but couldn't face the hills as a > daily commute. Then I got a bike with a motor and spent the next two years > bike-commuting. Mine is a small, 4 cycle, gas engine. Not as green as > electric, but I calculate I get about 100 miles per gallon and was only > using the motor for about a quarter of the biking time. The gas motor has a > bit more power than any electric I've seen, which helps with the section of > Elm St. right above where you probably turn. It wasn't a real choice > though, just what I happened to come across. I too have spread the word and > know of at least one person who bought an electric bike as a result. > > However, you should know that these bikes are illegal on NY roads. > Anything with a motor must be licensed and insured. But these bikes cannot > be licensed or insured. Catch 22. The odds of you actually being ticketed > are pretty slim, but because of where I work, I can no longer bike-commute. > And even though the chances of someone stopping you are pretty low, the > penalties for unlicensed, uninsured operation of a motor vehicle are pretty > severe. Sooner or later someone will get slammed. > > We should be pushing for a change in the law that recognizes the reality of > power boosted bicycles. Some states and other countries define a category > of motor assisted bicycles, with a limit on either power or speed, and > define them as bicycles, not motor vehicles. It's time for NY to do the > same. > > Tim > > > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:28:11 -0400 (EDT) >>> From: "David Peter McCobb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>n >>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], >>> [email protected] >>> User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.9a >>> Subject: [SustainableTompkins] Electric Bikes >>> Reply-To: Sustainable Tompkins County listserv < >>> [email protected]> >>> List-Id: Sustainable Tompkins County listserv >>> <sustainabletompkins.lists.mutualaid.org> >>> List-Unsubscribe: < >>> http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins>, >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> ?subject=unsubscribe> >>> List-Archive: <http://lists.mutualaid.org/pipermail/sustainabletompkins> >>> List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]> >>> List-Help: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> ?subject=help> >>> List-Subscribe: < >>> http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins>, >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> ?subject=subscribe> >>> Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> Fellow Bikers, I bike-commuted to Cornell from NE area for 8 years prior >>> to moving to Ecovillage, but was stymied for 5 years by the hills between >>> West Hill and CU...until I put an electric motor on my bike. I have been >>> doing it by electric bike for over a year now, and loving it. I am >>> working >>> hard to spread the word; these things make biking in downtown Ithaca seem >>> like the easiest, least-fuss and most satisfying way to travel possible. >>> They require gentle exercise at a level that is nothing-but-fun, and >>> invite more physical input. At stoplights, I love sliding up the edge to >>> the front of the pack, and being able to accelerate out of the way when >>> the light turns green; I think it makes intersections safer, as well as >>> less annoying for bikes. The best part for me, of course, is the range >>> extension; on a single charge I can get to CU, loop up to the mall area >>> if >>> needed (rarely!!), and swoop and climb back home. Every time I head down >>> from W. Hill (Elm St. extension is pretty quiet) I get a smile on my face >>> about how fun it is to be so free. And my fitness has improved, without >>> the brutality of Ithaca Hills. >>> >>> I am working hard to spread the word, as I think this compromise >>> transport >>> is ideal for this town. I claim to have gotten 12 electric bikes on the >>> road so far, through my coaching, brokering, and selling activities. >>> People of every possible sort have had their curiosity piqued by this, to >>> the point that they have either begged or been cajoled into test riding. >>> I >>> have quite a variety of models in my garage, and have an open invitation >>> for all to try them all. The cost of adding this to an existing bike is >>> around $500 (fewer than 10 fill-ups at the pump at current gas prices), >>> and battery recharge costs less than ten cents, I reckon (~0.5 KWatt >>> hours). >>> >>> I call them EZbikes, for a good reason (technically short for electric >>> zippy bikes). I also call my yellow one the "cheatah"; Perhaps Ithaca is >>> ready for this cheaters-version of biking. I think if they were to catch >>> on, this town could absorb several thousand, and set an example. At least >>> I am having a blast trying to make the case! >>> >>> David McCobb >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >>> >>> > Tony Del Plato wrote: >>> > >>> > I've been a commuter cyclist for over 50 years, both here and in NYC, >>> > and frankly, as much as bike lanes would be nice, we simply need to >>> > take to the road and be present and very visible. >>> > >>> > ************** >>> > Tony, >>> > >>> > I agree wholeheartedly. It is a rare day when I see another bicycle >>> > commuter on my daily commute between West Hill and downtown and back, >>> > even now when the fair weather bikers have taken to commuting by bike. >>> > >>> > Yesterday morning however I did pass some 60 cars in the 3-4 minutes >>> > it took for me to get from my house down to the corner of Buffalo and >>> > Taughannock. (By the way 7 out of 8 of those cars, Priuses included, >>> > contained a single occupant.) Generally on my commutes I share the >>> > road with myself and about 400 cars and trucks. In other words I >>> > represent about one-quarter of one percent of the morning commuter >>> > traffic traveling to work via Cliff Street. >>> > >>> > If I don't see any evidence of substantive, sustained reliance on >>> > bicycle as a means of transportation on my daily commutes then I'm >>> > sure Common Council, Board of Public Works and planning and >>> > development Board members certainly can't see it from behind their >>> > steering wheels. >>> > >>> > One thing that has not changed in my 25 years in the public planning >>> > realm is that politicians may speak otherwise, but when it comes down >>> > to a vote they do not respond to logic or the interest of the >>> > environment and the public health and welfare. They respond to >>> > constituencies and the money behind them. That is as true here in >>> > Enlighten City USA as anywhere else. >>> > >>> > Frankly, there is no real constituency for serious bicycle >>> > transportation infrastructure here in Ithaca. We are a fringe >>> > element and treated as such. That's why hundreds of thousands of >>> > dollars are being sunk into recreational trail blackholes such as the >>> > Cayuga Waterfront Trail and the Bridge to Nowhere linking two >>> > segments of a future Trail to Nowhere at the south end of town, at >>> > the expense of real improvements to bicycle transportation >>> > infrastructure. >>> > >>> > That's why a decade after the Town of Ithaca adopted a plan for a >>> > 28-mile network of bicycle and pedestrian paths a mere .75 mile >>> > segment has been built and some three miles of potential future >>> > bike/ped paths won't happen because the Town Board and Planning have >>> > ignored the plan and let developers pave over the mapped routes. >>> > >>> > That's why in 2005 the Town of Dryden Town Board cut out about ten >>> > miles of proposed bicycle and pedestrian paths from their new >>> > comprehensive plan. Because nobody spoke up for the bicycle >>> > pedestrian transportation component, but once enough people got >>> > organized to mount an opposition, it got cut. >>> > >>> > The fact is that here in Ithaca, as is the case through the US, the >>> > bicycle is viewed as nothing more than a recreational toy, simply >>> > because that is how 99 percent of bike owners use their bikes. No >>> > amount of Bike to Work days or Cyclovias to the Farmers Market are >>> > going to change that perception.. >>> > >>> > The only thing that would are hundreds of bicycle commuters on the >>> > streets of Ithaca, on a daily basis, rain, shine or snow. It can >>> > happen, and has happened in places like Toronto, Seattle and >>> > Vancouver, but those are three very compact cities where distances >>> > between home and work are short enough to make biking competitive >>> > with the automobile >>> > >>> > That environment does not exist in Ithaca. Given the deeply >>> > ingrained sprawl mentality here, as exhibited in the negative >>> > responses to my arguments for a more compact Ithaca, it doesn't have >>> > much chance of happening here, either. >>> > >>> > But I'm still not giving up hope. >>> > >>> > Stupidly tenacious. >>> > >>> > George Frantz >>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> > >>> > >>> > George, >>> > >>> > Believe it or not, lots of folks are afraid to ride their bicycles in >>> > traffic. No matter how much you might think they are sissies, they are >>> > real people with real fears of being clobbered by two tons of metal. At >>> > the cyclovia I attended a couple of weeks ago, many of the attendees >>> > expressed a fear of traffic and appreciation for the handholding and >>> > support that the cyclovia event provided. I agree that we all need to >>> be >>> > riding our bikes on the roads with cars and I do this every day. But >>> the >>> > best way to get more folks doing it is to help them, encourage them, >>> and >>> > hold their hands if need be, not to berate them or discount them. >>> > >>> > Gail Blake >>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> > >>> > I agree with George. We need to focus exclusively on creating bike >>> routes >>> > through the flats for people who live/work downtown. I don't care how >>> > people >>> > choose to get into town - that's their problem. Commuting up/down the >>> > hills >>> > is just not going to happen - ever. I bicycle commute every day from >>> Fall >>> > Creek to the west end. I'm pretty brave on a bike and I can totally see >>> > why >>> > the average person would never bike downtown in the current situation. >>> My >>> > observations are: >>> > >>> > 1. The roads are narrow with lots of on-street parking (doors >>> swinging >>> > into your path are extremely dangerous). >>> > 2. Like George, I rarely see another commuter - perhaps a couple >>> times >>> > a >>> > week. I do see other cyclists but these are typically kids on >>> > sidewalks or >>> > darting out across traffic. Although I frequently use the sidewalks >>> > myself >>> > near fulton as it is much easier and allows me to get to work >>> faster >>> > than if >>> > I drove (as I pass by all those single occupant cars waiting at the >>> > lights). >>> > 3. I rarely see pedestrians either. I'd be curious to know how many >>> > millions of dollars are spent on sidewalks that are rarely used - >>> at >>> > least >>> > roads are heavily used. >>> > 4. I find it very easy to navigate north/south on any street >>> downtown >>> > at >>> > any time of day. I own those roads! >>> > 5. East/West is another story. Each street has pluses and minuses. >>> > 1. State street is really narrow and parking on both sides is >>> > normally >>> > pretty heavy. Traffic is very slow with frequent traffic lights >>> and >>> > I can >>> > easily stay in the middle of the lane and keep up (no need for a >>> > bike lane). >>> > State street businesses absolutely need those on-street parking >>> > spaces to >>> > survive (Gimme, Mama Goose, Bishops, etc.). Let's not be too >>> > dramatic and >>> > think state street could ever have a bike lane - that's just >>> plain >>> > stupid >>> > and as George pointed out 0.25% has little sway so don't even >>> > bother >>> > fighting that one. It's bad enough that the commons is closed to >>> > traffic, >>> > stretching that out further makes no sense. >>> > 2. Green street is actually a great route despite the faster >>> > traffic. >>> > There are no stops until Cauyga and the street is pretty wide. >>> > There is >>> > on-street parking but it is never very heavy because most >>> > properties are >>> > commercial along this street with their own off street parking. >>> > Residential >>> > also have their own off street parking. Personally, I think this >>> > is the best >>> > candidate for a dedicated bike lane heading east. Removing >>> > on-street parking >>> > along the north side would have few if any complaints (Time >>> Warner, >>> > Fire >>> > Station, Ithaca Journal, DP Dough, etc.). These people have >>> their >>> > own >>> > parking lots and should not care too much if a couple dozen >>> > on-street spaces >>> > are removed. >>> > 3. Seneca on the other hand has a lot of properties that >>> probably >>> > depend on the on-street parking. I don't think you could remove >>> > parking >>> > continuously from either side of this street without a lot of >>> > controversy. >>> > 4. Buffalo and Court always seem to be crazy at commuting times >>> - I >>> > avoid these as much as possible. Way too many stop signs and >>> > every stop sign >>> > or traffic light is a potential bike-vehicle conflict. I much >>> > prefer a >>> > straight shot. >>> > 5. Cascadilla is the best all around route. There is one stop >>> sign >>> > at >>> > Geneva and it's wide open with lots of visibility. Very little >>> > traffic on >>> > this street and I can zip across town very quickly. I will go >>> > out of my way >>> > on either end of town just to take this route. Would love to see >>> > a sharrow >>> > on this street (not a dedicated bike lane). Once I get to Fulton >>> > I take the >>> > west sidewalk. I feel bad about being a cyclist on the sidewalk >>> > but until we >>> > have more cyclists and more signage I feel a lot safer and it's >>> a >>> > lot >>> > quicker. >>> > 6. Another thing to consider is bike routes should not have traffic >>> > lights. The stupidest feeling I have ever experienced on a bike is >>> > when I'm >>> > stopped at a red light with nobody in sight and a cat sleeping in >>> the >>> > road. This is bad enough when you're in a car but I'm not a threat >>> to >>> > anyone >>> > in this situation, I'm not in any danger of being hit by anyone yet >>> > the law >>> > says I have to stand there for 30 seconds or more feeling like an >>> > idiot. And >>> > then a kid comes up on his bmx and liesurely rides kitty-corner >>> > through the >>> > intersection. In general we need to get rid of a lot of traffic >>> > lights. >>> > >>> > Noah >>> > >>> > h 607.273.3029 >>> > c 607.262.0305 >>> > >>> > 405 E. Marshall Street >>> > Ithaca, NY 14850 >>> > >>> > www.deviron.com >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Elan Shapiro >>> > Sustainable Tompkins Community Partnership Coordinator >>> > Sustainable Living Associates, Principal >>> > Frog's Way B&B >>> > 211 Rachel Carson Way >>> > Ithaca, NY 14850 >>> > 607-275-0249 607-592-8402 Cell >>> > >>> > "We must be the change we want to see in the world" >>> > Mohandas Gandhi >>> > >>> >>> Delete & Prev | Delete & Next >>> Move to: >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, >>> please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ >>> >>> RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins >>> free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org >>> >> >> ===<<<>>>=== >> Leni Hochman >> Chief Operations Officer >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> 607-216-3418 >> >> Alternatives Federal Credit Union >> 125 N. Fulton Street, Ithaca, NY 14850-3301 >> 607-273-4611 fax 607-277-6391 >> www.alternatives.org >> >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: 6/22/2008 >> 7:52 AM >> > > Tim Joseph > 772 Elm St. Ext. > Ithaca, NY 14850 > 607-277-2519 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- "Justice is what love looks like in public." ~ Dr. Cornel West _______________________________________________ For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: [email protected] http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org
