> On Jun 11, 2018, at 5:32 PM, Kyle Evans <kev...@freebsd.org> wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 7:23 PM, Devin Teske <dte...@freebsd.org > <mailto:dte...@freebsd.org>> wrote: >> >> On Jun 11, 2018, at 11:20 AM, Warner Losh <i...@bsdimp.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 11:54 AM, Devin Teske <dte...@freebsd.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Jun 11, 2018, at 7:07 AM, Warner Losh <i...@bsdimp.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Devin Teske <dte...@freebsd.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jun 10, 2018, at 6:32 PM, Kyle Evans <kev...@freebsd.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Author: kevans >>>>> Date: Mon Jun 11 01:32:18 2018 >>>>> New Revision: 334939 >>>>> URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/334939 >>>>> >>>>> Log: >>>>> lualoader: Allow brand-*.lua for adding new brands >>>>> >>>>> dteske@, I believe, had originally pointed out that lualoader failed >>>>> to >>>>> allow logo-*.lua for new logos to be added. When correcting this >>>>> mistake, I >>>>> failed to do the same for brands. >>>>> >>>> >>>> You’re doing an amazing job, Kyle. >>>> >>>> I continually see nothing but genuine effort toward feature parity which >>>> makes me think one day I can pass the reigns. >>>> >>>> Yeah, I will always love Forth. It will always hold a special place in my >>>> heart as that whacky language that simultaneously exudes great power while >>>> also having the image ability to induce vomiting 🤮 by the uninitiated. >>>> >>>> However, all that being said, I’d actually like to keep the Ficl boot >>>> stuff as an option through to 14.0 and here is why ... >>>> >>>> Last year we were looking to update from ficl3 to ficl4. That may not >>>> sound too exciting to most folks, but most folks don’t know the power that >>>> ficl4 brings — like the capability to use full networking in the loader! >>>> Can >>>> lua do that? How cool would it be to be able to communicate with the >>>> network >>>> from the loader before the kernel is even loaded into memory? I had a few >>>> hair-brained schemes left for Forth which might be exciting, lol >>> >>> >>> The current boot loader can already communicate via NFS or TFTP today. >>> Adding http would be easy, https would be harder due to crypto being huge >>> and space being small (though bear ssl might be small enough). >>> >>> The last articulated plan in arch@ was that LUA will be default in 12, and >>> we plan to remove FORTH in 13. Last time I said it there in February, there >>> was only email agreeing that I could find. This matches the in-person >>> consensus poll I took at BSDcan as well. I think it would take a very >>> extraordinary set circumstance and severe problems with LUA to change those >>> plans. >>> >>> >>> At BSD Can there was the boot working group where we discussed that an FCP >>> would be required to decide this. >> >> >> In the working group you weren't listening and being rather combative and >> demanding that I do stuff, >> >> >> I think that's an unfair characterization of the situation, but it doesn't >> matter -- that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. >> >> >> >> so I stopped talking. >> >> >> Hopefully we can _start_ talking. As the principled author of this work, I >> want to have a say in its deprecation since I still maintain that body of >> work. >> >> >> It should not be taken as a sign of my consent, but more a sign of not >> wanting to get into a yelling match in public on a topic I thought had been >> settled months ago. >> >> >> Nobody asked *me* about how I would like to see *my* work removed from the >> tree. I think I should have a say. >> >> I think I've been pretty darn helpful in the process by providing >> substantive and helpful feedback to not only Kyle but also on the GSoC >> project etc. I've not stood in any ones way. For being so helpful, I would >> expect a level respect in this matter. >> >> >> >>> I raised my desires that I would like to be able to flip a knob in 13 and >>> reboot between Ficl and Lua, back and forth. >>> >>> Give people a choice until we have done a "shake-out" through an entire >>> major version. >>> >>> An honest-to-goodness procession would be, in my mind: >>> >>> 13: Has both; both are installed. End-user can boot back and forth between >>> the two >>> >>> Problems that arise in one or the other are non-critical because there is >>> always an "out" by running the other. >>> >>> 14: Has both but both are not installed. The installer media doesn't even >>> have it. You can't install the Forth booth stuff unless you twist a knob in >>> buildworld, optionally going down the path of generating release media which >>> has the Forth boot stuff. >>> >>> 15. It's removed from tree. You can't build Forth boot. Lua only. No >>> looking back, no way to build it with Forth, to get Ficl you need to go to >>> ports. A Ficl with FreeBSD boot words no longer exists and is no longer >>> maintained. All of bhyve userboot also therefore uses Lua. >> >> >> That's way too long. 12 will have Lua by default, but you can build FORTH if >> you want has been the plan since February when I socialized this on arch@. I >> originally pitched coexistence, but there was little appetite for that. >> >> So I think a FCP discussed in arch@ is the right path forward. >> >> >> We sat on the GSoC for years. Why all of a sudden do we need to ship this in >> less than 6 months? >> >> There are new features in Forth for 12 and they work and Lua has not caught >> up to them (e.g., Boot Environments in the loader menu) and you want to make >> Lua the default in 12? This doesn't make sense. > > I have no comments on the rest- this discussion should mostly occur on > the FCP that will be drafted shortly. We added Boot Environment > support months ago at this point, and also added some other cool > feature like auto-detecting kernels in /boot/* to be presented in the > kernel selector. >
Would you be willing to update here for the benefit of those in this thread... Are you at feature parity yet? -- Devin _______________________________________________ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
