Thanks Michael for the input. I realized that after your last response I was indeed mixing terms. I will post up on the swift-corelibs-dev list.
Travis Beech | Principal Developer | Unwired Revolution | c: 1 (209) 535-5357 Optimizing Operations for Mobile and Distributed Systems From: <milse...@apple.com<mailto:milse...@apple.com>> on behalf of Michael Ilseman <milse...@apple.com<mailto:milse...@apple.com>> Date: Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 2:49 PM To: Travis Beech <tbe...@unwiredrevolution.com<mailto:tbe...@unwiredrevolution.com>> Cc: David Waite <da...@alkaline-solutions.com<mailto:da...@alkaline-solutions.com>>, "swift-evolution@swift.org<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>" <swift-evolution@swift.org<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> Subject: Re: [swift-evolution] Crypto routines as part of the core library On Apr 14, 2016, at 2:42 PM, Travis Beech <tbe...@unwiredrevolution.com<mailto:tbe...@unwiredrevolution.com>> wrote: It should be provided by Swift, not some unknown developer out on Github, no matter how good his\her credentials are. I see core libraries as part of the language runtime. If you look at other modern languages such as Java, crypto is there out of the box, you don’t have to do anything extra to get support. No extra jars to download, etc. and that’s how it should be with Swift. Ah, I think we have a problem with our definition of terms. When I say “language feature” I’m referring to syntax, semantics, and other compiler enhancements that may be necessary. What you’re describing can be solved entirely in the core libraries without direct language or compiler changes. In the case of Java, there is no *language* support, but there library support in the standard included libraries. That is, there is no special syntax or compiler changes to support this, just bundled Java code. This is in contrast to, e.g. regular expressions in scripting language like perl or ruby, where there is actual syntax and semantics that make using them easier, as opposed to other languages that just have them in libraries. I think having an official sanctioned, Swift-provided (via the core libraries) crypto library makes sense, but again I’m not familiar with the core libraries. Please also ask on swift-corelibs-dev, as they might know better if there’s already efforts underway. Travis Beech | Principal Developer | Unwired Revolution | c: 1 (209) 535-5357 Optimizing Operations for Mobile and Distributed Systems From: <milse...@apple.com<mailto:milse...@apple.com>> on behalf of Michael Ilseman <milse...@apple.com<mailto:milse...@apple.com>> Date: Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 2:38 PM To: Travis Beech <tbe...@unwiredrevolution.com<mailto:tbe...@unwiredrevolution.com>> Cc: David Waite <da...@alkaline-solutions.com<mailto:da...@alkaline-solutions.com>>, "swift-evolution@swift.org<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>" <swift-evolution@swift.org<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> Subject: Re: [swift-evolution] Crypto routines as part of the core library On Apr 14, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Travis Beech <tbe...@unwiredrevolution.com<mailto:tbe...@unwiredrevolution.com>> wrote: Core libraries would be a great place, I just think this is a huge oversight in the language itself. I don’t think libraries found out on Github should be trusted, I think crypto should be done in an organized effort to ensure that the implementations are proper. That sounds like a contradiction. “Core libraries would be a great place” and “this is a huge oversight in the language itself”. Could you describe what language-level functionality would be needed here that can’t be adequately addressed by the core libraries? Do you know of any major programming language with language level features for crypto support, as opposed to solving it through a library? Travis Beech | Principal Developer | Unwired Revolution | c: 1 (209) 535-5357 Optimizing Operations for Mobile and Distributed Systems From: <milse...@apple.com<mailto:milse...@apple.com>> on behalf of Michael Ilseman <milse...@apple.com<mailto:milse...@apple.com>> Date: Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 2:33 PM To: Travis Beech <tbe...@unwiredrevolution.com<mailto:tbe...@unwiredrevolution.com>> Cc: David Waite <da...@alkaline-solutions.com<mailto:da...@alkaline-solutions.com>>, "swift-evolution@swift.org<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>" <swift-evolution@swift.org<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> Subject: Re: [swift-evolution] Crypto routines as part of the core library Why would it need to be built into the language proper instead of the core libraries? I am not too familiar with the core libraries, but perhaps swift-corelibs-dev<https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-corelibs-dev> is the more appropriate mailing list here? On Apr 13, 2016, at 7:24 PM, Travis Beech via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote: So what would it take to get a standard set of crypto API's built into the language? Travis Beech | Principal Developer | Unwired Revolution | c: 1 (209) 535-5357 Optimizing Operations for Mobile and Distributed Systems On Apr 13, 2016, at 10:11 AM, David Waite <da...@alkaline-solutions.com<mailto:da...@alkaline-solutions.com>> wrote: I don’t know if we need a boost-like parent project in order to start building core code to be brought for inclusion. I think success will naturally bring such a project structure - people seeking a curated and integrated set of frameworks to get common functionality. -DW On Apr 13, 2016, at 12:16 PM, Tino Heth via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote: This seems like a great candidate for a library that could be developed in the community and then possibly brought into Corelibs in a future version true — but sadly, there seems to be either no interest or manpower for a boost-like infrastructure… Like many other fundamental topics, I don't think crypto belongs to the stdlib, but none the less, there should be a standard library for encryption/hashing. _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ swift-evolution mailing list swift-evolution@swift.org<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
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