I think this idea--if you don't like it, then you don't have to use it--is indicative of a key worry here: it's inessential to the language and promotes dialects wherein certain people use it and others wherein they don't. This is an anti-goal.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 12:10 let var go <letva...@gmail.com> wrote: > Leave it in! > > It's a great little tool. I don't use it very often, but when I do it is > because I've decided that in the context of that piece of code it does > exactly what I want it to do with the maximum amount of clarity. > > If you don't like it, then don't use it, but I can't see how it detracts > from the language at all. > > The *only* argument that I have heard for removing it is that some people > don't immediately intuit how to use it. I didn't have any trouble with it > at all. It follows one of the most basic programming patterns ever: "For > all x in X, if predicate P is true, do something." The use of the keyword > "where" makes perfect sense in that context, and when I read it out loud, > it sounds natural: "For all x in X where P, do something." That is an > elegant, succinct, and clear way of stating exactly what I want my program > to do. > > I don't doubt that it has caused some confusion for some people, but I'm > not sold that that is a good enough reason to get rid of it. It seems > strange to get rid of a tool because not everyone understands how to use it > immediately, without ever having to ask a single question. As long as its > not a dangerous tool (and it isn't), then keep it in the workshop for those > times when it comes in handy. And even if there is some initial confusion, > it doesn't sound like it lasted that long. It's more like, "Does this work > like X, or does this work like Y? Let's see...oh, it works like X. Ok." > That's the entire learning curve...about 5 seconds of curiosity followed by > the blissful feeling of resolution. > > On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 9:32 AM Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: > >> On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Sean Heber via swift-evolution < >> swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: >> >>> > And to follow-up to myself once again, I went to my "Cool 3rd Party >>> Swift Repos" folder and did the same search. Among the 15 repos in that >>> folder, a joint search returned about 650 hits on for-in (again with some >>> false positives) and not a single for-in-while use. >>> >>> Weird. My own Swift projects (not on Github :P) use “where” all the time >>> with for loops. I really like it and think it reads *and* writes far better >>> as well as makes for nicer one-liners. In one project, by rough count, I >>> have about 20 that use “where” vs. 40 in that same project not using >>> “where”. >>> >>> In another smaller test project, there are only 10 for loops, but even >>> so one still managed to use where. >>> >>> Not a lot of data without looking at even more projects, I admit, but >>> this seems to suggest that the usage of “where” is going to be very >>> developer-dependent. Perhaps there’s some factor of prior background at >>> work here? (I’ve done a lot of SQL in another life, for example.) >>> >> >> That is worrying if true, because it suggests that it's enabling >> 'dialects' of Swift, an explicit anti-goal of the language. >> >> >>> >>> I feel like “where” is a more declarative construct and that we should >>> be encouraging that way of thinking in general. When using it, it feels >>> like “magic” for some reason - even though there’s nothing special about >>> it. It feels like I’ve made the language work *for me* a little bit rather >>> than me having to contort my solution to the will of the language. This may >>> be highly subjective. >>> >>> l8r >>> Sean >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> swift-evolution mailing list >>> swift-evolution@swift.org >>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> swift-evolution mailing list >> swift-evolution@swift.org >> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >> >
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