Key points:
<paulfremantle> new JIRAs
<paulfremantle> 1) clean up home page and more enticiing
<paulfremantle> 2) add how to build src
<paulfremantle> 3) how to set up eclipse
<paulfremantle> 4) how to contribute?
<paulfremantle> 5) Add a metrics mediator
<paulfremantle> 6) Add a simple first example: set up a proxy and watch
the metrics
Session Start: Thu Jul 20 17:23:01 2006
Session Ident: #apache-synapse
* Now talking in #apache-synapse
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<hzbarcea> hi everybody
<asankha> hi hadrian
<asankha> have you been working on any schema stuff?
<hzbarcea> yes, i started to work on it, but didn't finish and i am
flooded with some other work at the moment
<hzbarcea> i didn't have a chance to reply to a few mails on the list either
<asankha> ok.. np.. just curious to know if you are working on it..
<hzbarcea> i think the whole issue got a bit confusing
<asankha> shall i undo my recent changes.. if that will make things
easier for u to work on?
<asankha> but our community does not want to change the language to be
schema validatable..
<hzbarcea> i didn't look at them yet, you can leave them there and we'll
make necessary changes later
<hzbarcea> :) you tell could why me?
<hzbarcea> now that was some english har to validate, wasn't it?
<hzbarcea> hard to validate i meant
<asankha> yes..
<hzbarcea> just the order was off
<hzbarcea> could you tell me why? (is the correct order)
<hzbarcea> :)
<asankha> but the main issue is with attributes
<hzbarcea> Paul said that we should do the validating in synapse
<asankha> since we have cases like either attribute A and B or attribute C
<asankha> which cannot be validated
<hzbarcea> i can agree with this, i didn' say we should validate the
configuration all the time but it should be validateable
<hzbarcea> do you mean the combination of attributes or the value of the
attributes
<asankha> the combination of attributes :-(
<hzbarcea> ok, let's take wsdl
<hzbarcea> one can have
<hzbarcea> (sorry I meant xml schema not wsdl)
<hzbarcea> <xs:element ref="QName"/> or
<hzbarcea> <xs:element name="NCNAME" type="QName"/>
<hzbarcea> correct?
<hzbarcea> one cannot put an @type attribute with @ref
<asankha> yes..
<hzbarcea> so this is documented and the logic coded in the parser/validator
<hzbarcea> it does not mean that a schema should not be validateable
<asankha> so how do you propose we validate say a filter mediator.. like
<filter (source="xpath" regex="string") | xpath="xpath">
<asankha> with a combination of schema and some additional logic coded
into the parser/validator?
<hzbarcea> i didn't get there yet, i could think of at least a couple of
ways
<asankha> hmm.. this is interesting if you can do it quite easily
<hzbarcea> the schema is not necessarily for the synapse project itself,
but 3rd party tools, etc
<hzbarcea> what would you do with this configuration:
<asankha> yes..
<hzbarcea> <filter source="xpath" foo="one" bar="2"/>
<hzbarcea> a schema would clearly and simple tell that @foo and @bar ar
invalid attributes
<hzbarcea> the semantics cannot be expressed in the schema and I am not
trying to go there
<asankha> ok.. i understand what you say now
<hzbarcea> for instance one can express that @source is an xs: string
but not that it is an xpath expr
<hzbarcea> plus, as I said in a previous thread I don't think changes
are needed in synapse, we just have to come up with the schema
<asankha> cool.. +1
<hzbarcea> thx
<hzbarcea> personally i still didn't understand what exactly the
community has against schema and validation
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<asankha> hi sanjiva
<hzbarcea> one point I think Sanjiva made (here, he just joined :), hi
Sanjiva) is that we shouldn't make xml more complicated just for the
sake of validating it
<hzbarcea> and I could not agree more
<hzbarcea> so in my mind
<hzbarcea> xml configuration should be simple and straightforward
<asankha> exactly.. not that anyone is against using schema for
validation - but think that the language should not be changed to
achieve schema validation
<hzbarcea> schema should reflect the syntax
<hzbarcea> semantics should be documented and reflected in the logic/code
<hzbarcea> if we were to change the language it would be to make it
clearer/simpler/unabmiguous
<hzbarcea> we'd have to discuss each instance of the change and evaluate
impact on users who might already use synapse and would have to make changes
<asankha> i think you should write a summary of this and post to the
mailing list... as some may not read the chatlogs in detail
<hzbarcea> well, i think all this was already stated on the mailing list :)
<hzbarcea> but i could certainly do so, better probably on the wiki and
point to it in a message on the list
<asankha> yes.. that'll be better...
<hzbarcea> the problem right now is that I am fighting other issues,
still synapse related which will take another couple of days
<asankha> other issues?
<hzbarcea> :) i didn't mean bugs
<hzbarcea> i am looking into two things, one being a rules based mediator
<hzbarcea> using drools in particular
<hzbarcea> another one is a scenario i am not sure how to address
<asankha> i think you could do so easily with a class mediator.. or
better yet.. write your own extension
<hzbarcea> by easy you mean it's just writing code right? easy indeed :)
<hzbarcea> coming back
<hzbarcea> let's say one has the server behind a firewall
<hzbarcea> and puts synapse in the dmz
<asankha> :)
<asankha> ok.. lets talk about the second scenario
<hzbarcea> now the server returns to the client a WS-A reference to
another service the client must talk to
<asankha> ok..
<hzbarcea> but the client cannot hit it, so synapse would have to deploy
a new (dynamic) proxy and pass back to the client the reference to the
new one
<hzbarcea> sounds fun enough?
<hzbarcea> (the first scenario, i am writing an extension, indeed)
<asankha> i guess thats one way to do it.. but if you can get the client
to always set the transport to the synapse instance, then synapse can
forward to the real service even if you dont have a proxy
<hzbarcea> i am not sure i understand
<hzbarcea> we have to servers A and B
<saminda> dynamic indeed, what would you propose ??
<hzbarcea> the client C sees synapse S as service A, it does not know
about A really
<asankha> i think the proxy model is 'easier to understand' and manage
but the message model can be used as well
<hzbarcea> but S sends the original message to A and A returns *in the
message* a reference to B. S gets the reference to B, what will it give
back to C?
<asankha> can you set the client to use synapse (S) as a proxy for all
traffic? (i assume this is http)
<asankha> if you can get all the messages into S at transport, then you
can always look into the messages at S and forward appropriately
<asankha> so the client never knows about S
<asankha> its set as a transparent proxy
<asankha> e.g. ProxyStockQuoteClient
<hzbarcea> now i think I know what you mean, you are assuming a SOAP
message, what if it's POX?
<saminda> i think in B's case it has two options
<saminda> being anonymus or reference another
<asankha> still if its http/s you can do it..
<asankha> even on other transports
<hzbarcea> http
<asankha> once the underlying Axis2 gets the POX/REST message, it will
wrap it in a SOAP envelope
<hzbarcea> you can do it, but you need another endpoint
<asankha> so after synapse gets hold of a message, its always SOAP no
matter the transport or whether it was originally SOAP or POX/REST
<hzbarcea> the issue (the way i see it) is dynamic deployment of another
endpoint in synapse
<hzbarcea> messages sent to the initial endpiont go to A
<saminda> that depends
<hzbarcea> messages sent to dynamicly deployed endpoint go to B
<hzbarcea> let's make things more fun
<hzbarcea> A is soap, B is JMS :)
<hzbarcea> A sends back a reference to service B with a jms transport
<asankha> ok.. :) we support JMS!
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<asankha> i still dont think this is a problem..
<asankha> if you want, you could re-write the content in the reply
messgae from A and replace the reference to B with something else..
<hzbarcea> this probably means that you know somethink i don't (yet) :)
<hzbarcea> that's exactly what i am trying to do, but replace it with what?
<hzbarcea> it has to be a referece to something else, the client can hit
<hzbarcea> and that other endpoint must exist, but it wasn't
preconfigured, because synapse didn't know about it at startup, so it
has to be created, configured and deployed at runtime.
<hzbarcea> unless there is a simpler way i don't see
<asankha> i think so.. can you put up a basic diagram for the scenario..
Im sure we can do this right now .. and would love to work on this
<asankha> you could post this to the user group as others may also be
interested
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<hzbarcea> i intended to do so of course after finishing my work :)
<hzbarcea> you asked what keeps me busy...
<asankha> what i proposed to you initially.. i.e use synapse as a
transparent proxy should perform what you require
<hzbarcea> then i need some sort of differentiator in the second message
to tell synapse to send it to be not a
<asankha> no.. what i mean is.. since synapse server can send whatever
the message to whatever the server...
<asankha> whatever address service A replies to the client for service B
should be valid at the synapse server
<hzbarcea> agree, but it has to be told to do so
<hzbarcea> it is
<asankha> now the problem is to get the client to send messages to B (or
C.. or D.. dynamically) as if he can access them all without any problem
<hzbarcea> undortunately i have to drop out now, i have to get to the
office :)
<asankha> the trick is to set synapse as a transparent proxy for the
clients transport
<asankha> the client uses WS-A for the actual service address.. but all
messages first get to synapse
<asankha> sure.. lets talk about this on the user list.. maybe you can
document this in brief for others also to follow
<hzbarcea> sure, thanks
<hzbarcea> bye
<asankha> talk to you next week.. bye
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* Disconnected
Session Close: Thu Jul 20 18:52:52 2006
Session Start: Thu Aug 03 17:29:14 2006
Session Ident: #apache-synapse
* Now talking in #apache-synapse
<ant> hi guys
<asankha> hi all
<gdaniels> ant was asking me about helping out with Tuscany
<gdaniels> now that Progress/Sonic is all SCA-involved, we might do
something there.... eventually. :)
<paulfremantle> aha cool
<ant> the rest of you are welcome to of course. How about a Tusacny
Synapse binding?
<paulfremantle> sooooooo what i was hoping we could get into today
<gdaniels> yes, Mr. Paul?
<paulfremantle> is how to make Synapse 0.90 super dooper cool
<ant> yes, i'll stop talking about Tuscany now
<gdaniels> super dooper cool
<gdaniels> wow
<paulfremantle> indeed
<gdaniels> I'll take ten!
<gdaniels> sounds amazing!
<gdaniels> what does it do again? :)
<paulfremantle> exactly what were looking for
<gdaniels> I think the way to make it super dooper cool, at least one
way, is to include a couple of out-of-the-box examples that really give
users something they can relate to immediately.
<paulfremantle> sounds good
<paulfremantle> like?
<gdaniels> well, good Q. :)
<asankha> yes... i am actually in the process of creating an example
suite...
<asankha> something to show almost all mediators in action, and using
https, jms etc etc
<gdaniels> you know what would be really cool?
<ant> and kind of related what about something like a "happy synapse" page?
<paulfremantle> aha.... happy synapse!
<paulfremantle> go on glen
<gdaniels> If Synapse could run as a Module in a single instance of Axis2
<paulfremantle> and....
<gdaniels> i.e. if I could get Mediation benefits without extra
network/buffer round trips at all
<gdaniels> you see what I mean?
<paulfremantle> ok i see
<gdaniels> in-process, embedded
<gdaniels> that's the only way you're ever going to convince the
performance-hounds, I think
<paulfremantle> do you think thats the out-of-the-box thing you
mentioned above?
<gdaniels> no, that was another topic
<gdaniels> I'm flighty in the morning :)
<paulfremantle> ok
<paulfremantle> so out of the box.... what would you want to do to show
people how cool this is?
<gdaniels> the out-of-the-box thing might be as simple as metrics and
management
<gdaniels> or VERSIONING!
<paulfremantle> ok.... so define a proxy service and capture how many
hits, how fast, etc?
<gdaniels> metrics/management is easier
<paulfremantle> versioning assumes I've got two services!
<gdaniels> right, and also be able to turn it on/off at the proxy
<paulfremantle> ok
<gdaniels> (yes, versioning does assume that)
<paulfremantle> so the dynamic config might be cool.....
<paulfremantle> edit the xml file
<paulfremantle> wait a minute
<paulfremantle> and try again and the behaviour is different
<gdaniels> yup
<paulfremantle> k
<gdaniels> was just looking at the "DynamicProperty" thing
<asankha> we also have a way to handle errors now
<gdaniels> the "cache" should really be "content" or "value", IMHO
<gdaniels> getCache() sounds like I should be getting an object of type
foo.Cache
<gdaniels> getValue() is better
<paulfremantle> getCachedValue?
<gdaniels> sure, but why does the user of the API need to type "Cached"
when the whole point of using a DynamicProperty object at all is to use
the caching?
<paulfremantle> lol maybe :-)
<gdaniels> that feels like hashtable.getValueFromHashtable() :)
<paulfremantle> i see - good point
<asankha> ok..i will change it
<gdaniels> thx
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<paulfremantle> hey Hadrian!
<gdaniels> I'm always such a naming-nitpicker... :) But I really do
believe it's one of the most important things in software design for
ease of use!
<paulfremantle> welcome
<hzbarcea> hi everybody
<paulfremantle> +1 glen
<gdaniels> hi Hadrian
<paulfremantle> I'm useless at naming.... so I appreciate creative
method namers
<paulfremantle> Hadrian
<paulfremantle> we are just discussing how to make Synapse easier to "get"
<paulfremantle> and Glen had the idea of "out-of-the-box" offering some
simple use cases
<paulfremantle> like
<paulfremantle> 1) define a proxy service that monitors the performance
and hit count of a service
<paulfremantle> and helps manage it
<hzbarcea> assuming all calls to the server go through synapse?
<gdaniels> yup
<paulfremantle> or just repoint your service to the proxy service
<paulfremantle> either
<gdaniels> (another benefit of "embedded" Synapse, btw - that could
really manage the service itself instead of just calls through the proxy)
<gdaniels> (Hadrian, I was suggesting it might be good to have an
in-process version of Synapse that works as an Axis Module)
<paulfremantle> we didnt get as far as great out-of-the-box scenario 2
<paulfremantle> so there's still time :-)
<hzbarcea> basically write mediator to collect interesting metrics for
an application that sits behind a synapse gateway
<paulfremantle> yes
<gdaniels> o-o-b scenario is versioning, maybe
<hzbarcea> i am not sure what you mean by embedded synapse, but i
thought about something like this a few days
<gdaniels> which could be as simple as content-based routing
<hzbarcea> back, and it occured to me that
<hzbarcea> we can have a non ws based environment, but app based
<hzbarcea> what i mean by that is that an application will simply host
synapse, instantiate a MessageContext and let if flow
<hzbarcea> the requests wouldn't come from a WS stack but from the app
<hzbarcea> is it along the lines of what you are thinking?
<gdaniels> not really the same thing, but also interesting
<gdaniels> basically you're talking about the app acting as the Synapse
"binding" - it knows how to put messages/data into and take them out of
a MessageContext
<paulfremantle> soo we have already modded synapse to fit as a MAR file
<paulfremantle> sounds cool, but I still think the key focus should be
at the intermediary level not the app level
<gdaniels> I was talking about a standard Synapse with "real" web
services, but instead of running as a separate process, it embeds within
an Axis2 instance as a Module and is really focused on performance - you
save network roundtrips and message
serialization/deserialization/buffering costs.
<asankha> glen.. we can do what you state already
<asankha> as synapse is a MAR
<gdaniels> really?
<asankha> saminda did the change some weeks back
<paulfremantle> yep!
<hzbarcea> really :)
<gdaniels> So I can use Synapse to call through to services hosted in
the same Axis2 instance
<gdaniels> with no network roundtrip
<paulfremantle> why sure Glen
<asankha> yep.. you should get the *latest* version of synapse and see
what cool features we have now :-)
<saminda> yes
<paulfremantle> thats why we want to do a release
<hzbarcea> look at the n2n test SynapseCommodityService
<gdaniels> cool!
<paulfremantle> because of all the spanky hard work thats gone into it
since the last release
<gdaniels> and there's no re-serializing/deserializing in between?
<paulfremantle> nope
<gdaniels> the same MC, in other words
<paulfremantle> none at all
<paulfremantle> sure....we wrap the Axis2 MC thats all
<paulfremantle> but no copying
<gdaniels> awesome :)
<gdaniels> Well, there's your versioning example, then. That should be
in-proc.
<asankha> glen.. if synapse "sends" a message it recives to a service
colocated on the same host it goes through the localhost interface..
i.e. not the wire
<gdaniels> So if I have S1 and S2, I should be able to use either an
XPath or a SOAP header to indicate which one to call.
<gdaniels> For instance, if the new S2 adds an element, I can look for
that with an XPath - or if it requires a SOAP header I can look for
that... other reqs continue to go to S1.
<gdaniels> I think that's a nice out-of-box scenario too.
<saminda> Glen, could you please explain this a bit
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<paulfremantle> sure
<paulfremantle> that works fine
<saminda> your scenario, i'm a little lost with this scenario
<gdaniels> sure
<paulfremantle> i think i get it
<gdaniels> I've got a service S1 which accesses customer info by name
<gdaniels> Then I come up with version 2 of that service which does the
same thing but also allows me to search by phone number
<asankha> is this a proxy service or a normal axis2 service glen?
<hzbarcea> sounds like classic content based routing, right?
<gdaniels> normal servies
<gdaniels> s/servies/services/
<asankha> ok..
<gdaniels> yes, Hadrian
<gdaniels> this actually isn't the greatest example, but the basic idea
is that you have V2 of a service
<gdaniels> the schema may have changed for the body element itself,
adding new content
<gdaniels> or perhaps V2 requires a new SOAP header
<asankha> so u have to deploy these as 2 proxy services, or write
<rules> in the synapse config to decide where to send a request to
<hzbarcea> and use xslt or something withing synapse to adapt between
the two versions...
<paulfremantle> asankha
<paulfremantle> i have a q
<gdaniels> in either case there's something you can key off of pick
which version is the right onw
<paulfremantle> once we've handled glens scenario
<asankha> glen... what you describe is possible ..
<gdaniels> it's a single proxy service which switches back and forth
between the two back end services based on the content
<gdaniels> "classic content based routing"
<gdaniels> but packaged nicely as an easy-to-use example
<saminda> yes this is out of box and available
<hzbarcea> paul said it, possible already
<saminda> !
<asankha> glen.. this is certainly possible :-)
<paulfremantle> so Asankha... suppose I define a proxy service... and
its EXACTLY the same as the backend (i.e. im monitoring it but not
changing messages)
<asankha> ok..
<paulfremantle> do I have to go in and redefine my own WSDL to point to
the Synapse instance?
<paulfremantle> if I want to publish a new WSDL with the new endpoint
<asankha> you should let synapse know which wsdl to be used to base the
proxy service on
<paulfremantle> ok
<paulfremantle> but does synapse modify the endpoints to point to
synapse for me?
<asankha> you can point it to a URL where the wsdl is or to a registry etc
<asankha> yes
<paulfremantle> ok so I can point to "http://existing.com/service?wsdl";
<asankha> if u do a ?wsdl on the synapse proxy service instance, u get
the correct endpoint
<paulfremantle> fantastic
<asankha> since u can expose a http WS as a JMS on synapse.. or vice versa
<asankha> and we will handle the rest for u
<paulfremantle> so in fact that is a great out-of-the-box scenario.....
just rerouting a request
<paulfremantle> and then adding metrics
<asankha> if you do not provide a WSDL, it will be a POX service.. say
for JMS etc
<paulfremantle> and then xxxx other function later
<asankha> yes.. but note..
<asankha> we do not yet have a metrics module :-(
<asankha> if thats high priority.. we should focus on that
<paulfremantle> we could do a simple one
<paulfremantle> just to get going
<hzbarcea> glen, would you like to contribute one? it's easy and fun!
<hzbarcea> and we can help
<gdaniels> :)
<paulfremantle> well lets just spend 5 mins figuring out what it would
look like
<gdaniels> I can't, alas, commit to anything like that at the moment :(
<paulfremantle> awww
<hzbarcea> you don't need to
<paulfremantle> shame
<gdaniels> but I can try to help
<hzbarcea> you can try and see how it goes
<gdaniels> it's just finding the cycles :)
<paulfremantle> so the question is how do you get the metrics from synapse
<asankha> i think we need to think a bit into the future here...
<hzbarcea> jmx?
<paulfremantle> maybe the mediator could look for a specific SOAP action
<gdaniels> does Axis2 have metrics yet?
<paulfremantle> nope not yet
<asankha> what i think is that now synapse can be clustered as we have
registry support..
<paulfremantle> JMX would be nice but I don't know how that works :-)
<gdaniels> what about a web interface?
<asankha> so each new synapse instance can point to a reg and get its
config and update itself etc
<paulfremantle> hold on asankha
<hzbarcea> i wanted to propose and contribute something like this in a
not very distant future
<paulfremantle> lets start simple and then factor that
<hzbarcea> that works too
<paulfremantle> so here's cool idea
<paulfremantle> you call the service with a specific action
<paulfremantle> and instead of getting the service response
<paulfremantle> you get a metrics response
<paulfremantle> so you could even use REST
<gdaniels> except for the action part :)
<gdaniels> what about ?metrics
<paulfremantle> that would be cool
<paulfremantle> in fact that would be cool for Axis2
<gdaniels> and also demo how you can use basic auth for that, hopefully
<paulfremantle> and then we could enhance it for synapse
<paulfremantle> alternatively
<gdaniels> i.e. public service, but restricted ?metrics access
<paulfremantle> we could define a separate service endpoint in Synapse
<paulfremantle> and have the metrics passed over to that
<gdaniels> yup
<asankha> that sounds cool
<gdaniels> many possibilities
<paulfremantle> that would be easier to manage security for
<asankha> yes.. i like both ways Paul
<saminda> ?metrics would be more cool :)
<paulfremantle> well how about this
<paulfremantle> put ?metrics into Axis2 as a module
<paulfremantle> and an aggregator into Synapse
<gdaniels> and have it return XML with an associated stylesheet so it
looks nice in a browser...
<asankha> yes.. having an aggregator should allow us to aggregate stats
from a synapse cluster someday after polling from each node
<paulfremantle> and also aggregate from multiple services in the same
synapse
<paulfremantle> im less worried about the cluster yet
<paulfremantle> soo
<paulfremantle> we've got a great oob example
<paulfremantle> but what else do we need to do....
<asankha> i think we need to also fix up documentation
<paulfremantle> yes +1
<asankha> help from anyone is appreciated :)
<paulfremantle> anyone good at Maven and HTML?
<paulfremantle> I'd love to have a better front page
<paulfremantle> maybe a diagram showing what Synapse does etc
<asankha> yes.. we need to update the front page .. some diagrams would
be very useful
<hzbarcea> can anybody lead this effort? maybe add some tasks in jira
for doc?
<hzbarcea> and we could sign up for pieces
<paulfremantle> cool idea
<paulfremantle> we could definitely make better use of JIRA!
<hzbarcea> but somebody has to have the vision and put together a plan
<paulfremantle> lol I'll take a go
<asankha> yes
<hzbarcea> :) we rely on you paul
<paulfremantle> i'll try and sort it out today and tomorrow
<asankha> else we may get a hit for now using jira too ;)
<ant> +1 to more JIRA, When you follow the issue tracking link to JIRA
you immediately see only 8 issues _total_. That makes the project look
very new and unused.
<paulfremantle> yeah i think thats probably next
<paulfremantle> i know
<paulfremantle> its cos we havent any bugs :-)
<hzbarcea> :)
<hzbarcea> i think it would be good to think about growing the community
<ant> Should there be a 'how to build the src' page on the website? With
the svn links and or at least point out the building.txt and how to
setup your IDE etc?
<paulfremantle> yes
<ant> and i ask because - how do you set up eclipse?
<paulfremantle> ok so......
<paulfremantle> new JIRAs
<paulfremantle> 1) clean up home page and more enticiing
<paulfremantle> 2) add how to build src
<ant> when i do it there's lots of compile errors for json, samples etc?
<paulfremantle> 3) how to set up eclipse
<paulfremantle> 4) how to contribute?
<ant> do you guys use eclipse?
<hzbarcea> i do
<paulfremantle> i do
<asankha> umm,,, not me
<paulfremantle> 5) Add a metrics mediator
<paulfremantle> 6) Add a simple first example: set up a proxy and watch
the metrics
<ant> is there something else to set it up besides maven eclipse in the
core, extensions and samples folders?
<hzbarcea> you can generate the eclipse project using maven, there are
some problems with deps if i recall carrectly that require some manual
incantations
<hzbarcea> but that's it
<hzbarcea> then you open eclipse and import the project
<asankha> paul/hadrian.. maybe you should help ant with the eclipse
issues.. i dont have a clue to what really the issue is although ive
heard it complains of multiple classes or something..
<asankha> can one of you send your project file/s to ant as a start
<hzbarcea> i will, let's take it offline, once we perfect the process we
publish on the wiki
<ant> it should just work by using 'maven eclipse' is the poit I'm making
<ant> ok
<asankha> i agree ant..
<ant> another niggle, svn ignores aren't set so when syncing with SVN
all the target, logs, eclipse stuff wants to be committed
<paulfremantle> oh ok
<paulfremantle> maybe saminda and I can work on that
<asankha> ok.. shall we wrap up for the day then?
<paulfremantle> well its been productive
<gdaniels> +1
<hzbarcea> i have a q, but i am not sure if
<paulfremantle> thanks for joining everyone
<paulfremantle> go ahead Hadrian
<hzbarcea> we should talk about this today
<gdaniels> I gotta run now... good chatting with y'all, and nice work on
the new features!
<asankha> yes.. we should actively pursue on these items during the
coming days through email
<paulfremantle> actually
<hzbarcea> the idea i mentioned in my mail yesterday
<paulfremantle> which idea?
* gdaniels has quit IRC
<hzbarcea> of removing dependencies on soap from mc
<paulfremantle> So we had a LOT of discussion of this when we started
up.... you might want to go browse the archives
<hzbarcea> i think we better think more about it and talk later, but i
have serious thought about that, I am curious what you think
<paulfremantle> we had the same questions with Axis2
<paulfremantle> there is a balance between too much and too little
indirection
<paulfremantle> and we felt that previous efforts that had abstracted
away from SOAP were too complex and there was too much flexibility
<paulfremantle> one of the benefits of having a well defined structure
is that every mediator can know exactly what is where.
<hzbarcea> that's ok, but it can be delegated to the env, right?
<hzbarcea> the mc does know, because it is an env specific one,
<hzbarcea> i looked in the code and if i am not mistaken there are
exactly 3 mediators that need to know about soap
<hzbarcea> one being the log mediator that only cares about soap version
<hzbarcea> i hope i recall correctly, i did this 3 weeks ago
<hzbarcea> i think it's getting late and this is probably a long discussion
<paulfremantle> ok maybe i didn't understand the point.... I'll take a
look at the email and continue there
<hzbarcea> i am not sure if i made myself clear enough eiter :(
<asankha> lets discuss again in email
<paulfremantle> +1
<hzbarcea> thought so :)
<hzbarcea> great discussion, thanks
<asankha> thanks paul, ant, hadrian
* hzbarcea has left #apache-synapse
<asankha> i will post this... bye
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