Hi James, thanks for getting back to us.
The main take-away I get from your note below is "Sync 1.1 was good,
Sync 1.5 sucks". While I'm sure that is true from your perspective, Sync
1.1 isn't going to come back.
What we can improve is the documentation for what is needed to run Sync
1.5, but we really need feedback on what specifically is lacking here -
we do know many people have successfully used the documentation to
self-host Sync 1.5, so where the docs are lacking isn't immediately
obvious to us.
If you have any other actionable ideas for how we can improve the
situation for Sync self-hosters, please feel free to share them too.
Cheers,
Mark
On 3/04/2018 8:47 am, James Sundquist wrote:
Hi Mark,
Just want to follow up with you. I would love to see better support
from Mozilla for selfhosters. I am genuinely interested in Mozilla as a
pioneer for freedom and privacy, even from their own services. I know
your time is valuable, and I’m continuing to ask others for their
opinions. This is what I’ve understood.
- Those who want an easy to install, well documented solution do not
rely on Sync 1.5
- [Sync 1.1 was absolutely one of the most popular selfhosted, easy to
install apps used in Owncloud for years, requiring users simply install
a package from the Owncloud app store with a single
click.](https://github.com/owncloudarchive/mozilla_sync)
- Selfhosted users on Nextcloud and Owncloud still use Sync 1.1 with the
Palemoon firefox fork to maintain this simple experience, despite no
support from Mozilla.
- Sync 1.5 documentation is terrible or non-existent
- Sync 1.5 is too difficult to install, with some snap packages
available, but others not packaged at all.
- Sync 1.5 is too resource intensive for some to want to install on
their servers.
- [Sync 1.5 breaks authentication in Nextcloud Floccus bookmarks
extension, probably the most popular selfhosted Bookmarks solution in
2018, and is no longer encouraged at all by Nextcloud Bookmark devs as
of March 2018(https://github.com/marcelklehr/floccus/issues/47)
To quote the Floccus readme on github:
> Historically this was once possible using the mozilla sync app
<https://github.com/owncloudarchive/mozilla_sync>. However, it's not
very easy anymore
<https://github.com/owncloudarchive/mozilla_sync/issues/33> to run your
own sync server and it still would only work with firefox.
- Nextcloud Bookmarks would love API support for tags when syncing data
from the Firefox browser.
There is a lot of FUD, but it makes sense that Mozilla would care about
such things more than any browser in existence.
On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 4:15 PM Mark Hammond <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 22/03/2018 6:13 am, James Sundquist wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I asked for input from a Nextcloud Bookmarks dev in this thread.
Hope
> it is helpful.
> https://help.nextcloud.com/t/bring-firefox-sync-back/103
There is a huge amount of misinformation in that thread. We'd welcome
the Nextcloud devs talking to us here to get actual facts instead of the
FUD that seems to dominate now.
> I think, as was pointed out before and has lead me to creating
floccus,
> that, while hosting your own firefox sync server is nice and a
nextcloud
> app that does that would be useful to many, we would be, once
again, at
> the mercy of mozilla since we basically replicate infrastructure that
> they probably perceive not as an API or standard that needs to be
> maintained, but as a private service that they can change
whenever they
> like.
To be frank, the fact you want to integrate with Firefox at all does put
you at the mercy of Mozilla to some degree.
Also, it would be largely impossible to write an effective sync client
today using only webextension APIs and I doubt that will ever be
possible in the future either - for example, our current bookmark
syncing has custom SQL tables that join to existing SQL tables and
execute SQL directly - web extensions are simply never going to offer
that capability (and you simply can't make a reliable bookmark sync
engine without that capability.)
The differences between Sync 1.1 and 1.5 are almost all related to
authentication, and it *is* possible to self-host all parts of the new
stack. I'd recommend you encourage the Nextcloud devs to talk with us
directly about how they might move their 1.1 implementation to 1.5.
Hope this helps,
Mark
(I know this might be changing, as more people implement sync
> clients, but I don’t think many will do so.) However, I’m happy they
> have adopted the WebExtension quasi-standard, as I expect this to be
> much more stable – even more so, since a lot of extensions depend
on it
> rather than just a few people running their own sync infrastructure.
>
> That being said, the landscape for WebExtension support in
Firefox still
> leaves some things to be desired, from my perspective as the
developer
> of floccus: It’s currently impossible to access bookmarks’ tags
with a
> webextension, and Firefox for Android doesn’t offer access to
bookmarks
> at all, which is a major drawback for me. Still, I feel things are
> improving and we’re getting closer :slight_smile:
>
>
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Add-ons/WebExtensions/Browser_support_for_JavaScript_APIs
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 7:23 PM Mark Hammond <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
>
> On 2/03/2018 1:26 pm, James Sundquist wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I’m interested in improving Mozilla Firefox support for
open source,
> > self-hosted solutions that do not require Firefox Sync
servers for
> > bookmarks, tags, history, and passwords. Here is my
question on the
> > status of Firefox support for self hosting + how the
current 1.5 Sync
> > implementation could be improved for the greater
community. I’m
> excited
> > to hear your thoughts!
> >
> > https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1207473
>
> That thread has a link to our docs for self-hosting a sync
server, which
> seems to be what you are asking for.
>
> You also say in that thread that "I know the self-hosted
community is
> not satisfied with the current implementation of Sync 1.5
Afaik.", but
> that's not our experience - we can certainly do a better job on
> documentation, but we really need feedback on the areas that
need help
> and try to be responsive when we notice things that can be
improved. We
> also try to act on bug reports and pull requests in a timely
manner.
>
> In that vein, we are happy discuss how things could be
improved for the
> greater community - what did you have in mind?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mark
>
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