David,
You have an excellent memory. Amazingly enough, I just read an account of that exact
race you've described from memory it was actually July 10, 1965 at the AAA
Championships at White City as you remember. Derrick Young wrote of the
race in his book, "The Ten Greatest Races". It certainly lived up to that billing at
the time of the printing of book (1972).
Clarke won with a world record 12:52.2, While Lingren placed 2nd in an American Record
of 13:04.2.
Thanks for the eyewitness account. It was a great time for distance running in the
mid 60's.
Bill Brist
David Dallman wrote:
> On reflection (my track books are all at home) I think it was 1964 and
> 13:04.8 for Lindgren.
> David Dallman
>
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, David Dallman wrote:
>
> > I first saw Gerry Lindgren at London's White City stadium in, I think,
> > 1965. Ron Clarke had taken the world 3 mile record down from about 13:14
> > to just over 13 minutes and this day was about to take another 8 seconds
> > off. In those days Ron just ran away from everybody much of the time, and
> > the best British runners were nowhere after a couple of laps that day. But
> > this little American guy, not looking at all like a runner next to the
> > rather majestic style of Clarke, stayed with him all the way until about
> > the last 2 laps, and finished in 13:07 something, which must have been
> > second best all-time at the time. Hard to appreciate for you younger guys
> > when we are talking about these times or better for the 5000 these days,
> > but it was great running at the time, really going into unexplored
> > territory in a fearless way.
> > David Dallman
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, William Bahnfleth wrote:
> >
> > > <html>
> > > If that's what Rich meant (and on second reading, it appears that way), I
> > > agree.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Wish I had been old enough to see/appreciate Lindgren in his prime.
> > > Unfortunately, my direct memories are of disappointing OT performance
> > > late in his career.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Bill Bahnfleth<br>
> > > <br>
> > > At 08:26 AM 3/27/2001 -0800, Dave Cameron wrote:<br>
> > > <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Don't mean to speak for Rich McC -
> > > but I believe he's only<br>
> > > talking about their performances through high school. <br>
> > > He's saying that Lindgren and Ryun were running with world<br>
> > > class runners in high school, Virgin and Pre were not.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > FWIW, (as you know), Virgin was an awesome runner in high<br>
> > > school. He ran for a no-name school in central/southern<br>
> > > Illinois - lapped the competition in every 2 mile race<br>
> > > until the state meet (where he won by 20+ seconds). Won<br>
> > > two cross country championships by 30 seconds each over the<br>
> > > nearest competitor. Ran a time on the Illinois High<br>
> > > School State XC course (still in use today) that still<br>
> > > stands as the record despite names like Jim Spivey, Tom<br>
> > > Graves, Jorge Torres, and Donald Sage all trying to take it<br>
> > > down. But... Virgin wasn't competing with the world
> > > class<br>
> > > guys until college.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > As far as impact in college (and beyond), I completely<br>
> > > agree - you can't separate. I also agree that Virgin's<br>
> > > 2-time victory in the World XC championship is a phenomenal<br>
> > > feat that is often overlooked.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Dave Cameron<br>
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]<br>
> > > <br>
> > > --- William Bahnfleth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <HR><br>
> > > How can you put Virgin, who won an NCAA cross-country championship
> > > (defeating Nick Rose and John Ngeno), was a member of the ill-fated 1980
> > > US Olympic team, and won two world cross-country championships, in the
> > > category of "dominating HS competition" somewhere below
> > > Lindgren?! Pre held just about every AR. Distinguishing among
> > > these two and Lindgren is really slicing it too thin.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Bill Bahnfleth<br>
> > > <br>
> > > At 02:57 PM 3/26/01 -0800, you wrote:<br>
> > > <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>At 01:57 PM 3/26/2001 -0800, rric
> > > wrote:<br>
> > > <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font face="arial" size=2
>color="#0000FF">Richard
> > > McCann said-</font>
> > > <dl><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
> > > <dd>> </font>The World's have been run in muddy terrible conditions
> > > before and the US has consistently
> > > FAILED<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
> > > <dd>>... </font>to rise to the occassion. I think the fact the
> > > three athletes that most of this list
> > > would<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
> > > <dd>> </font>agree are among our top half dozen distance runners (with
> > > 2 not being there) were <font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
> > > <dd>> </font>able to put together outstanding performances in
> > > these conditions could very well be
> > > <font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
> > > <dd>> </font>indicative of their stepping up to a new
> > > competitive level for the coming
> > > year<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
> > > <dd>Here, here.</font>
> > > <dd> <font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
> > > <dd>> </font>As for Ritzenhein, he seems to be the next Virgin or
> > > Pre<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
> > > <dd> Agreed. But the really great news is that there is a candidate
> > > for a Virgin or Pre or Decker or Benoit in every region. </font>
> > > <dd> <font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
> > > <dd>-Linda Honikman</font></blockquote>
> > > </dl><br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > There are lots of great HS runners rising up right now. However, I
> > > sort the athletes historically into several tiers. At the top are
> > > Lindgren and Ryun who impacted world class competition. Then Virgin
> > > and Pre who set new HS standards and dominated all HS competition, then
> > > the classes of 1975-77 (i.e., Chapa, Salazar, McChesney, Hunt, et al) who
> > > ran as fast as Virgin and Pre, but had a lot of help. Then the
> > > yearly leaders who show up in the top 10 all time lists.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Ritz appears to be at the Virgin/Pre level, while the others seem to be
> > > at the 1975-77 level. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > RMc</blockquote><br>
> > > <br>
> > > _______________________________________________________<br>
> > > <br>
> > > William P. Bahnfleth, Ph.D.,
> > >
>P.E.
> > > <br>
> > > Associate Professor <br>
> > >
>
> > > <br>
> > > Department of Architectural Engineering <br>
> > > The Pennsylvania State University <br>
> > > 224 Engineering Unit A<br>
> > > University Park, PA 16802-1416 USA<br>
> > > <br>
> > > voice: (814)863-2076 / fax: (814)863-4789 <br>
> > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<br>
> > > <a href="http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth.htm"
>eudora="autourl">http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth.htm</a><br>
> > > _______________________________________________________ <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > __________________________________________________<br>
> > > Do You Yahoo!?<br>
> > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. <br>
> > > <a href="http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text"
>eudora="autourl">http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text</a></blockquote><br>
> > > <br>
> > > <div>_________________________________________________</div>
> > > <br>
> > > <div>William P. Bahnfleth, Ph.D.,
> > >
>P.E.
> > > </div>
> > > <div>Associate Professor </div>
> > >
><div>
> > > </div>
> > > <div>Department of Architectural Engineering </div>
> > > <div>The Pennsylvania State University </div>
> > > <div>224 Engineering Unit A</div>
> > > <div>University Park, PA 16802-1416 USA</div>
> > > <br>
> > > <div>voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789 </div>
> > > <div>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]</div>
> > > <div><a href="http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth.htm"
>EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth.htm</a></div>
> > > _________________________________________________
> > > </html>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > David Dallman
> > CERN - SIS
> >
> >
> >
>
> David Dallman
> CERN - SIS
