and what if I do not agree with the English text. I saw the example for addr:street in your movie. The description now says you have to add addr:postal_code. This is not true for countries whare postal code boundaries are mapped. I do agree that this is needed in countries that use ZIP codes though. How do we solve such issues (before they get translated in too many languagues) ?
regards m. On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 4:00 PM Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks, I've got it now. > > The problem with the wikibase data item "labels": if you go to add the > description in another language for a recently created wiki page, the > top left of the page has a very large, gray text heading like "No > Label Defined" (but in Indonesian, or Spanish, etc), which suggests > that something is missing. > > I suspect this happens because the English "label" field may not have > been created in the data item? > > Also, when adding the description, the next field to the left is the > blank label field, with grayed-out text "No Label Found". It's quite > tempting to fill this in. Do we really want wiki users to feel they > should add translations for the "key" and "value" of each tag? > > On 8/5/19, Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrak...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Joseph, you don't need to use preferences - just click the language > > switcher at the very top of the page, and you only need to switch to > > Indonesian and back once -- the interface will always offer both choices to > > fill out. Please see the video, and let me know if what you see is > > different. You might be using mobile version of the site? > > > > Filling it out labels in every language is a bit silly - there are > > thousands of languages, why would we want to store identical information in > > every one of them, when the system automatically does fallback to English? > > I could create some sort of a javascript gadget that hides the label column > > when the item type is a key/value/relation/relation role (multilingual > > labels are still useful for other item types), but some people have already > > added some alternative language-specific labels, essentially localizing > > keys - not sure if we should just hide those. BTW, if anyone wants to hack > > on it (I'm looking at you Minh :)), it would be awesome! Or at least we > > should maybe give a warning when user tries to add a label identical to > > English? > > > > Every wiki page, including the data items have a "history" tab at the top > > that will show every edit done to that page. > > > > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 12:17 PM Joseph Eisenberg > > <joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Thanks, yes, changing the language under “preferences” for the wiki > >> works, > >> though it’s a little annoying. > >> > >> You should set the label field for all languages to the key=value or > >> remove this field and display the key=value at the top of the page > >> anyway. > >> It’s quite distracting Now. > >> > >> Is there a way to see the wikibase data item history? One big concern I > >> have is that it won’t be easy to see when something is changed. Can you > >> get > >> notified if someone changes a description? > >> > >> Joseph > >> > >> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 1:05 AM Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrak...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> P.S. I made a short video on how to add descriptions and translations > >>> > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI1NDD4MtC4 > >>> > >>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:56 AM Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrak...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Joseph, before you click "edit description", change your language at > >>>> the > >>>> top of the wiki page (make sure you are logged in. Also, if you change > >>>> the > >>>> language a few times to the ones you know, e.g. to Indonesian, to > >>>> Spanish, > >>>> and then to English, I think interface will always offer you to enter > >>>> description in the last few you had picked. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for adding translations! > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Joseph Eisenberg < > >>>> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> You're right, I was a little confused. Almost all the features on Map > >>>>> Features have a wiki page (and those that don't should get a page or > >>>>> more likely be removed), so I understand that they have an OSM > >>>>> wikibase entry, now, and creating the data item isn't an issue. > >>>>> > >>>>> But I still can't figure out how to add description in another > >>>>> language? > >>>>> > >>>>> I tried to get the Indonesian translation by: > >>>>> 1) Open the English wiki page (eg from the link on Map Features in > >>>>> this > >>>>> case) > >>>>> 2) Click on the little pencil to edit the OSM wikibase data item > >>>>> (which I can't see, because I have images disabled, but I just hunt > >>>>> around...) > >>>>> 3) Click on "edit" next to description > >>>>> 4) Click "all entered languages" - wait, how do I add Indonesian? > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Maybe I don't see Indonesian because I'm using a satellite internet > >>>>> connection from Australia and I haven't edited Indonesian before. I > >>>>> try clicking on "Configure" next to "In more languages" > >>>>> > >>>>> I don't see Indonesian there either. So perhaps I have to make a new > >>>>> wikibase entry for my language? Unfortunately I don't see a link to > >>>>> make a new wikibase item. > >>>>> > >>>>> Ok, let's try again with Spanish (Español), that's on the list... > >>>>> > >>>>> I still can't figure it out. How do I add a description in another > >>>>> language? > >>>>> > >>>>> Fortunately I can just make a stub wiki page by: > >>>>> > >>>>> 1) Open the English language page > >>>>> 2) Click on edit > >>>>> 3) Copy the url, add "id:" in front of the page name > >>>>> 4) Copy and paste the ValueDescription / KeyDescription box content > >>>>> 5) Edit the description to Indonesian > >>>>> > >>>>> It looks like that will still be fewer clicks and fewer mouse strokes > >>>>> than editing the OSM wikibase data items, and has the benefit of > >>>>> creating a visible wiki page rather than just editing an obscure data > >>>>> item. > >>>>> > >>>>> Joseph > >>>>> > >>>>> On 8/4/19, Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrak...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > Joseph, could you clarify what you mean by "Map Features entry" ? > >>>>> > If > >>>>> you > >>>>> > only refer to keys/tags/relations/relation roles, than those things > >>>>> are > >>>>> > automatically created -- an editor only needs to translate them. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > I do agree that if we want to store more diverse data items, we need > >>>>> > specialized UI, at least for the initial item creation. Luckily, > >>>>> there is a > >>>>> > large Wikidata community that has already done many such custom UIs. > >>>>> For > >>>>> > example, Wikidata now stores language data (all lexems), and there > >>>>> > is > >>>>> a > >>>>> > community-created tool to add such words -- > >>>>> > https://tools.wmflabs.org/lexeme-forms/ (I'm not sure if this tool > >>>>> checks > >>>>> > for duplicates, please check first if you want to add new data). > >>>>> There are > >>>>> > many other tools we can model after. Best thing -- those tools > >>>>> > don't > >>>>> have > >>>>> > to be part of the wiki, but can reside anywhere else, and could be > >>>>> > in > >>>>> pure > >>>>> > client-side JavaScript. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 2:05 AM Joseph Eisenberg > >>>>> > <joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> > >>>>> > wrote: > >>>>> > > >>>>> >> So far, I've found it very difficult to create and edit new > >>>>> >> wikibase > >>>>> >> entries. I don't think it will be easier for Indonesian mappers to > >>>>> >> create a wikibase entry for every Map Features entry, rather than > >>>>> >> creating a stub page with a description. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> The advantage of translating wiki pages for each features is that > >>>>> then > >>>>> >> there is a human-readable page which can be updated and expanded > >>>>> >> over > >>>>> >> time, and also it's clear where the list of feature descriptions > >>>>> >> are > >>>>> >> coming from. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> If you want everyone to create wikibase entries instead, there > >>>>> >> needs > >>>>> >> to be a much easier, friendlier interface, available in all > >>>>> languages, > >>>>> >> and I think such a major change should be discussed and be > >>>>> implemented > >>>>> >> only if there is consensus that this would be a clear improvement > >>>>> >> for > >>>>> >> most language communities. > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Tagging mailing list > >>>>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org > >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Tagging mailing list > >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org > >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Tagging mailing list > >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
