Hi everyone,
So if I understand correct most parking spaces are mapped as polygons?
For the moment our app can only use node tags and also add new info as a
node tag.
I don't see the problem to add a width and length tag to a parking_space
node,
because this is more detailed info about the dimensions of a parking space,
that is
actually measured by people on site with a measure tape. I know it's kind
off double
info, but the polygon data is not accurate enough to really use for our app.
If other mappers would add these width and length tags not correctly our
users will
verify this info and correct it if not accurate.
Are there other apps that add info about parking places as polygons and
extract dimension
info from the polygon data?
For us it would be easy to make a node parking_space and add the tags width=
and length=.
Then we have the exact location of the parking place in our app. An example
of the info we
would add to this node:
amenity=parking_space
wheelchair=yes
capacity:disabled=
orientation=
width=
length=
surface=
Robin Julien
On Wheels
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org <tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org>
Verzonden: zondag 14 mei 2023 20:37
Aan: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Onderwerp: Tagging Digest, Vol 164, Issue 10
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: office=healthcare deprecated or bad documentation ?
(Andy Townsend)
2. Re: Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for
wheelchair users (Tobias Knerr)
3. Re: Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for
wheelchair users (Yves)
4. Re: Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for
wheelchair users (Alan Mackie)
5. Re: Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for
wheelchair users (Tobias Knerr)
6. Re: Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking spaces for
wheelchair users (Marc_marc)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 May 2023 11:34:16 +0100
From: Andy Townsend <ajt1...@gmail.com>
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Tagging] office=healthcare deprecated or bad
documentation ?
Message-ID: <2ff04bf3-1315-2a29-e415-aea306f12...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 12/05/2023 21:16, Marc_marc wrote:
> Hello,
>
> in 2020, the wiki was changed [|] for this tag (I don't remeber that
> we talk about it, no link in the comment of the change)
>
> [1]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:office%3Dhealthca
> re&diff=prev&oldid=2062630
>
See also discussion at
https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/deprecated-features-reason/99048
It's been changed back, and I asked why someone thought that the tag was
"discouraged" (which might have been part of the original problem).
Best Regards,
Andy
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 May 2023 17:15:33 +0200
From: Tobias Knerr <o...@tobias-knerr.de>
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking
spaces for wheelchair users
Message-ID: <cc666245-8864-2eba-0e96-f4c4fbc90...@tobias-knerr.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 13.05.23 at 18:28 Marc_marc wrote:
> why not just add this information as amenity=parking_space geometry ?
Indeed, amenity=parking_space is usually mapped as a polygon (over 94% of
amenity=parking_space tags are on ways, according to Taginfo). This makes it
possible to determine the dimensions with relatively simple calculations and
it seems undesirable to duplicate this information as tags.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 14 May 2023 19:59:22 +0200
From: Yves <y...@mailbox.org>
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
<tagging@openstreetmap.org>, Tobias Knerr <o...@tobias-knerr.de>,
tagging@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking
spaces for wheelchair users
Message-ID: <3909ce57-1aef-45f3-a439-1d23ffa2a...@mailbox.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Le 14 mai 2023 17:15:33 GMT+02:00, Tobias Knerr <o...@tobias-knerr.de> a
?crit?:
>On 13.05.23 at 18:28 Marc_marc wrote:
>> why not just add this information as amenity=parking_space geometry ?
>
>Indeed, amenity=parking_space is usually mapped as a polygon (over 94% of
amenity=parking_space tags are on ways, according to Taginfo). This makes it
possible to determine the dimensions with relatively simple calculations and
it seems undesirable to duplicate this information as tags.
>
These two suggestions made me laugh a bit: everybody is not super accurate
in drawing polygons, imagery has a resolution and I doubt a lot of mappers
go trough a complete parking lot a measuring tape in their hands.
On the contrary, estimating a width from one's car when you happen to really
need to know is probably not far-fetched.
I'd say yes to such a tag.
Regards,
Yves
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 14 May 2023 19:11:57 +0100
From: Alan Mackie <aamac...@gmail.com>
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
<tagging@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking
spaces for wheelchair users
Message-ID:
<CAEPvJGo+dCToCmdgKAu8M7vE3YS8=uczv75qsa0yxmvvwo8...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Sun, 14 May 2023 at 19:04, Yves via Tagging <tagging@openstreetmap.org>
wrote:
>
>
> Le 14 mai 2023 17:15:33 GMT+02:00, Tobias Knerr <o...@tobias-knerr.de> a
> ?crit :
> >On 13.05.23 at 18:28 Marc_marc wrote:
> >> why not just add this information as amenity=parking_space geometry ?
> >
> >Indeed, amenity=parking_space is usually mapped as a polygon (over 94% of
> amenity=parking_space tags are on ways, according to Taginfo). This makes
> it possible to determine the dimensions with relatively simple
calculations
> and it seems undesirable to duplicate this information as tags.
> >
> These two suggestions made me laugh a bit: everybody is not super accurate
> in drawing polygons, imagery has a resolution and I doubt a lot of mappers
> go trough a complete parking lot a measuring tape in their hands.
> On the contrary, estimating a width from one's car when you happen to
> really need to know is probably not far-fetched.
>
StreetComplete recently split their measuring tool out into its own
dedicated app recently so that is also an option if you're on Android:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.westnordost.streetmeasure
I imagine iOS has similar tools with its AR stuff.
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 14 May 2023 20:37:19 +0200
From: Tobias Knerr <o...@tobias-knerr.de>
To: Yves <y...@mailbox.org>, "Tag discussion, strategy and related
tools" <tagging@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking
spaces for wheelchair users
Message-ID: <1f6369b7-80e2-e82b-085c-5b5356761...@tobias-knerr.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 14.05.23 at 19:59 Yves wrote:
> everybody is not super accurate in drawing polygons, imagery has a
resolution and I doubt a lot of mappers go trough a complete parking lot a
measuring tape in their hands.
Sure, mappers drawing polygons very rarely use measuring tape.
The same is true for mappers adding tags.
I'd wager the vast majority of width values currently in the OSM
database are estimates or ? at best and in rarer cases ? rough
measurements from a phone app.
It's obvious that the dimensions of polygons in OSM are not reliable.
But unless you have a plan to prevent mappers from entering guesses or
insufficiently precise measurements into width tags for parking spaces
(even while using those sources for width tags on all sorts of other
objects is accepted practice and commonplace), I doubt that you will
consistently achieve the desired accuracy by encouraging people to add
width tags to parking spaces. _Maybe_ it will work as long as no one
except accessibility-focused apps uses this tag and therefore mappers
overwhelmingly keep that particular use case in mind when adding the
tags, but that seems fragile.
Also, on an unrelated note, I'm curious about the intended definition of
width and length for non-rectangular parking spaces.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 14 May 2023 20:36:30 +0200
From: Marc_marc <marc_m...@mailo.com>
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Tagging proposal On Wheels app 3 - Parking
spaces for wheelchair users
Message-ID: <a7274021-b6e4-5537-ad4b-c71ff18b0...@mailo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Le 14.05.23 ? 19:59, Yves via Tagging a ?crit?:
> everybody is not super accurate in drawing polygons
indeed, and most tools doesn't allow to request a polygon with a given
lenght/width
> I doubt a lot of mappers go trough a complete parking lot a measuring tape
in their hands.
> On the contrary, estimating a width from one's car
I don't understand this argument: the question is not to have the
measurement (with a laser, with satellite imagery, by estimating
by comparison with his car)
the question is how to introduce this measure in osm with
3 possible choices :
either on a parent object (for example amenity=parking with
parking_space:width parking_space:lenght) but that does not say
where the space is)
or an amenity=parking_space node with width and lenght: compared
to the previous solution, we gain the position of the space (and
anyone on the spot can obviously tell where he is when he parks
his vehicle)
or an amenity=parking_space polygon: compared to the previous
solution, we gain the surface and its orientation in relation
to the other objects.
> I'd say yes to such a tag.
I have nothing against the tag, it would simply be necessary for the
person/application in question to know that it is only one of the 3
possible methods and that, out of the 3, it is the one that gives
the least information. so :
- if they have the possibility to make a method giving more
information, they might as well do it (at least a node
amenity=parking_space)
- if osm has the information in the form of area, it shouldn't come
to the point of saying "no, it must be in the form of
parking_space:width" and convert or ignore the precise methods
in favour of the less precise one
and if someone were to convert a parking_space:witdh
parking_space:lenght to a surface of this size, the application
would not have to regress or worse, someone would have to revert
because the application does not handle it in this form
Regards,
Marc
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