Hi, I'm surprised you couldn't find some F3 signs there as well!
In any event, we can.. 1. Ignore the new routes until they are completed. Then re-reference the road. 2. As soon as the route is confirmed and there are some signs, re-reference the road 3. Adopt some new schema that allows us to have both route references at once. 4. Adopt of hodge-podge approach, and reference partial roads, based on the assessment/whim of the mapper concerned. I originally proposed 1, but now I'm leaning towards 2, because I feel I'm swimming against the tide. I don't think we're capable of doing 3. And I'd hate to end up with 4. Ian. On 10 May 2013 05:29, Ben Johnson <tangarar...@gmail.com> wrote: > I took a look there last weekend. As you say... inconsistencies everywhere. > > Northbound all are M1 with B74, and there's even a distance reassurance > sign (not interchange-related) showing distances to Brisbane, titled "M1 > Pacific Mwy" which I was surprised to see. > > Southbound all are NR1 with B74. > > The signs at the top of the ramps are in odd combinations like NR1 > "Pacific Mwy" on one sign, and M1 "Freeway" on another... > > It's a real tourist attraction for sign geeks! > > BJ > > On 09/05/2013, at 22:11, Nathan Van Der Meulen <natvan...@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > You're not going to win any way you change the route references. On the > ground, around the Tuggerah Interchange alone are references to Nat Route > 1, M1, Pacific Motorway etc. Note that the freeway is referenced as M1 > from Wyong Rd (B74) but on the freeway it's still NR1. B74 only seems to > be referenced at the interchange. If you only edit as per what's on the > ground, how do you edit that? > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 03/05/2013, at 21:00, talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: > > > >> Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to > >> talk-au@openstreetmap.org > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of Talk-au digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ian Sergeant) > >> 2. Re: Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ben Kelley) > >> 3. Re: Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ian Sergeant) > >> 4. Re: Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ben Johnson) > >> 5. Re: Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ian Sergeant) > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 15:07:02 +1000 > >> From: Ian Sergeant <inas66+...@gmail.com> > >> To: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au@openstreetmap.org> > >> Subject: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW > >> Message-ID: > >> <CALDa4YLY+4KEnutrnBmjcRpE5z3G5hH4z6Yzyu=duwiw5sn...@mail.gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> I've noticed a few people are changing the references in NSW to the > >> alphanumeric references before the signage has changed. > >> > >> I don't see the purpose of this. I doesn't correspond to what is on the > >> ground, it must be confusing to people actually trying to use OSM for > >> navigation. Also, given it is the RTA coordinate this, it wouldn't be > >> surprising if some of the routes actually differed from the proposed > routes > >> on the webpage. > >> > >> To the best of my knowledge the only route that has been re-referenced > is > >> the B73, the others still retain their existing signage - with perhaps > an > >> uncovered sign here and there. I traced the > >> > >> I'd suggest we can use the wiki to coordinate as these references > change? > >> That way we can ensure the entire route is renamed at once, rather than > a > >> patchwork? > >> > >> Ian. > >> P.S. Of course there have been a few routes (M7, A31/M31 approaching > >> Albury) that have been this way for a while, and aren't at issue here. > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/f593d5da/attachment-0001.html > > > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 2 > >> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 15:33:45 +1000 > >> From: Ben Kelley <ben.kel...@gmail.com> > >> To: Ian Sergeant <inas66+...@gmail.com> > >> Cc: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au@openstreetmap.org> > >> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW > >> Message-ID: > >> <CAE4-2TKPPKzjA3EE-kwfkDrH=8b-_by+h74hv3ytdgn+ajl...@mail.gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> Hi. > >> > >> I have seen a few A15 signs on the New England Highway, but there are > still > >> quite a few 43 and 15 signs along the route. The ground can still be a > bit > >> confusing. > >> > >> - Ben Kelley. > >> On 3 May 2013 15:08, "Ian Sergeant" <inas66+...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I've noticed a few people are changing the references in NSW to the > >>> alphanumeric references before the signage has changed. > >>> > >>> I don't see the purpose of this. I doesn't correspond to what is on > the > >>> ground, it must be confusing to people actually trying to use OSM for > >>> navigation. Also, given it is the RTA coordinate this, it wouldn't be > >>> surprising if some of the routes actually differed from the proposed > routes > >>> on the webpage. > >>> > >>> To the best of my knowledge the only route that has been re-referenced > is > >>> the B73, the others still retain their existing signage - with perhaps > an > >>> uncovered sign here and there. I traced the > >>> > >>> I'd suggest we can use the wiki to coordinate as these references > >>> change? That way we can ensure the entire route is renamed at once, > >>> rather than a patchwork? > >>> > >>> Ian. > >>> P.S. Of course there have been a few routes (M7, A31/M31 approaching > >>> Albury) that have been this way for a while, and aren't at issue here. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Talk-au mailing list > >>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/deaad936/attachment-0001.html > > > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 3 > >> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 15:47:02 +1000 > >> From: Ian Sergeant <inas66+...@gmail.com> > >> To: Ben Kelley <ben.kel...@gmail.com> > >> Cc: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au@openstreetmap.org> > >> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW > >> Message-ID: > >> <calda4yjaebwhjfczgsmc2yqdevjtquorqlvok-mkwzjgxxg...@mail.gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> Agreed. > >> > >> I could see a strict "on-the-grounder" changing the ref for each road > >> section :-) > >> > >> I've noticed Google Maps is using the A36 now for the Princes Hwy, but > I've > >> only seen one sign at Rockdale, so I still think it is too early to > change > >> the route in OSM, but I'm open to be convinced. > >> > >> But I think using the wiki to coordinate when a particular route has > been > >> referenced, and then we use old_ref to capture the previous route > >> referencing. Currently when I use skobbler to do navigation its ugly > >> moving back and forth in references between the same road. > >> > >> Ian. > >> > >> On 3 May 2013 15:33, Ben Kelley <ben.kel...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi. > >>> > >>> I have seen a few A15 signs on the New England Highway, but there are > >>> still quite a few 43 and 15 signs along the route. The ground can > still be > >>> a bit confusing. > >>> > >>> - Ben Kelley. > >>> On 3 May 2013 15:08, "Ian Sergeant" <inas66+...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi, > >>>> > >>>> I've noticed a few people are changing the references in NSW to the > >>>> alphanumeric references before the signage has changed. > >>>> > >>>> I don't see the purpose of this. I doesn't correspond to what is on > the > >>>> ground, it must be confusing to people actually trying to use OSM for > >>>> navigation. Also, given it is the RTA coordinate this, it wouldn't be > >>>> surprising if some of the routes actually differed from the proposed > routes > >>>> on the webpage. > >>>> > >>>> To the best of my knowledge the only route that has been > re-referenced is > >>>> the B73, the others still retain their existing signage - with > perhaps an > >>>> uncovered sign here and there. I traced the > >>>> > >>>> I'd suggest we can use the wiki to coordinate as these references > >>>> change? That way we can ensure the entire route is renamed at once, > >>>> rather than a patchwork? > >>>> > >>>> Ian. > >>>> P.S. Of course there have been a few routes (M7, A31/M31 approaching > >>>> Albury) that have been this way for a while, and aren't at issue here. > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Talk-au mailing list > >>>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > >>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/616a9529/attachment-0001.html > > > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 4 > >> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 17:13:04 +1000 > >> From: Ben Johnson <tangarar...@gmail.com> > >> To: Ian Sergeant <inas66+...@gmail.com> > >> Cc: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au@openstreetmap.org> > >> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW > >> Message-ID: <c1b0a966-8138-40ea-852c-a8a56e55a...@gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > >> > >> I agree this can be better coordinated, but not everyone uses or reads > this list. > >> > >> I have a particular interest in these new routes? (don't ask). > >> > >> B74 is already majorly unveiled at the Tuggerah junction with M1 - so I > turned B74 on in OSM. > >> http://www.ozroads.com.au/NSW/Special/MAB/563.jpg > >> http://www.ozroads.com.au/NSW/Special/MAB/558.jpg > >> > https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vEehFafhUeo/UWnpzpBCuNI/AAAAAAAAALg/rKvL4389seo/s1600/IMG_3205.JPG > >> > >> We should expect large-scale coverplate removal any day now. RMS has > been waiting until end of school holidays, and also I believe for the > release of Sydway and UBD 2014 editions which apparently are now available > with new route numbers? so I think we're about to see big changes fast. So > brace yourselves. > >> > >> I'm going that way again tomorrow and will investigate B70 to see if > there's any action there yet. I've created a few route relations for alphas > in Central Coast and Newcastle region, but haven't set the ref tags yet > until there is on-ground signage in place. This will make it easier (when > the signs are unveiled) to select an entire route in JOSM and add the ref > tag. If you agree with this method then I'm happy to volunteer to continue > creating relations for the new routes. I have 5 weeks holidays starting > soon with plenty of spare time and I want to get back into contributing to > the project. > >> > >> What should become of the old routes? Should old_ref be retained, > should old route relations remain? > >> > >> Regard hierachies - have we agreed that all A routes are Trunk, and all > B routes are Primary? Should former the "State" routes (e.g. SR83 Old > Pacific Hwy from Gosford to Doyalson) currently assigned as a Primary road > now be lowered to Secondary as it loses its route number. > >> > >> Happy to help out - but I don't want to step on toes. > >> > >> BJ > >> > >> > >> > >> On 03/05/2013, at 3:07 PM, Ian Sergeant <inas66+...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I've noticed a few people are changing the references in NSW to the > alphanumeric references before the signage has changed. > >>> > >>> I don't see the purpose of this. I doesn't correspond to what is on > the ground, it must be confusing to people actually trying to use OSM for > navigation. Also, given it is the RTA coordinate this, it wouldn't be > surprising if some of the routes actually differed from the proposed routes > on the webpage. > >>> > >>> To the best of my knowledge the only route that has been re-referenced > is the B73, the others still retain their existing signage - with perhaps > an uncovered sign here and there. I traced the > >>> > >>> I'd suggest we can use the wiki to coordinate as these references > change? That way we can ensure the entire route is renamed at once, > rather than a patchwork? > >>> > >>> Ian. > >>> P.S. Of course there have been a few routes (M7, A31/M31 approaching > Albury) that have been this way for a while, and aren't at issue here. > _______________________________________________ > >>> Talk-au mailing list > >>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/fecea80f/attachment-0001.html > > > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 5 > >> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 21:00:04 +1000 > >> From: Ian Sergeant <inas66+...@gmail.com> > >> To: Ben Johnson <tangarar...@gmail.com> > >> Cc: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au@openstreetmap.org> > >> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW > >> Message-ID: > >> <CALDa4YJeiNJcD-J3a=ywgi_fl3nm97or+gqnkewwjxchlwu...@mail.gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > >> > >> On 3 May 2013 17:13, Ben Johnson <tangarar...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> > >>> We should expect large-scale coverplate removal any day now. RMS has > been > >>> waiting until end of school holidays, and also I believe for the > release of > >>> Sydway and UBD 2014 editions which apparently are now available with > new > >>> route numbers? so I think we're about to see big changes fast. So brace > >>> yourselves. > >> If you're fairly confident, I would be happy to live with the new > >> references a few weeks in advance, if that's what we decide. It is > >> primarily just the hotch-potch I'd like to avoid. > >> > >> What should become of the old routes? Should old_ref be retained, > should > >>> old route relations remain? > >> > >> I think where it is easy to retain the old_ref during the transition we > >> should. However, these routes have changed so many times, and we don't > >> currently have the schema to retain every variation old route, so I see > it > >> just as a transitional thing. > >> > >> > >>> Regard hierachies - have we agreed that all A routes are Trunk, and > all B > >>> routes are Primary? Should former the "State" routes (e.g. SR83 Old > >>> Pacific Hwy from Gosford to Doyalson) currently assigned as a Primary > road > >>> now be lowered to Secondary as it loses its route number. > >> > >> I think reflects our current agreement. And finally we'll be able to > have > >> a deterministic algorithm at least for trunk and primary. > >> > >> I imagine the RMS in their wisdom are going to call the Hume south of > >> Berrima the A31, rather than M31, so we'll have to make a call on > whether > >> we keep that as motorway. I'd personally be in favour of doing so. > >> > >> Ian. > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/4696a56f/attachment.html > > > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Talk-au mailing list > >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > >> > >> > >> End of Talk-au Digest, Vol 71, Issue 2 > >> ************************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Talk-au mailing list > > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >
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