Thanks, Josh - good work! How about bare solid clay eg https://www.weekendnotes.com/im/007/01/duck-creek-road11.JPG
Definitely =unpaved, but then unpaved=??? ? On a similar topic, I mapped an airfield in Western Qld the other day, & it was listed as being "sealed aggregate" - what would we call that? Thanks Graeme On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 at 11:27, Josh Marshall <josh.p.marsh...@gmail.com> wrote: > Eh, no time like the present. I may not leave these photos up forever but > here’s just a quick sample of the variety of roads I go on. If we end up > discussing these indepth I’ll put them somewhere permanent. > > > https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15u0CQQTI8GXhX8FeQcDvUoDUi9tByMWg?usp=sharing > > I would be inclined to tag all of these as surface=unpaved and > surface:unpaved=gravel, with the exception of 000 (surface:unpaved=rock?) > and 005 obviously (surface:unpaved=sand). And my views on the smoothness > follow as well, and I’d suggest we update the wiki [0] to have more > examples and relate it to more specific vehicles, bicycles, and foot access. > > File_000 with the 4wd is an example of a fire trail with exposed rock, > impassable except on foot, running. Too steep to ride a bike up unless > you’re exceptionally skilled or electrified. The track at the top and > bottom of the image is just bare ground, no added aggregate. > (smoothness=horrible) > > 001: a typical trail on a power line easement. You can see the grading and > aggregate, but also the bare rock starting to come through > (smoothness=very_bad) > > 002: graded and aggregate (smoothness=bad) > > 003: fire trail left-to-right through a MTB park: graded and aggregate > (smoothness=very_bad) > > 004: near the coast. aggregate added but grass has grown up > (smoothness=very_bad) > > 005: sand fire trail (smoothness=horrible) > > > [0]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:smoothness > > > On 4 Mar 2021, at 8:37 pm, Josh Marshall <josh.p.marsh...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > I do long runs through state forest and national park pretty much every > fortnight. I’ll start a collection and post them up in a few weeks. What’s > the best place to put them so they’re somewhat permanent?... and that > raises the question; do we start a proposal page according to [0] or take > it to the tagging mailing list first? > > [0] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal_process > > On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 7:57 pm, Sebastian S. <mapp...@consebt.de> wrote: > >> Would you happen to have some photos of such unpaved roads? >> >> In my opinion we should consider adding a new surface tag if we feel we >> need one and can describe the surface sufficiently. >> >> All this would start with some photos and a discussion in my opinion. >> Hence the question. >> >> Cheers, >> Seb >> >> >> >> On 23 February 2021 5:22:43 pm AEDT, Josh Marshall < >> josh.p.marsh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> The approved OSM tag for surface=gravel >>>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface> refers to railway >>>> ballast, not the fine crushed rock or natural surface that usually occurs >>>> on unpaved roads in Australia. However we call the fine unpaved surface >>>> "gravel" in common parlance, and many unpaved roads that don't constitute >>>> gravel as described in the OSM wiki have been tagged as gravel here, >>>> erroneously depending on your point of view. >>>> >>> >>> This is a matter of interest to me too. I spend a substantial amount of >>> time running+riding on fire trails in NSW (all highway=track), and the >>> surface type is useful and indeed used in a number of the route planners I >>> use. I have changed a few roads back to 'unpaved' from 'gravel' due to the >>> rule of following the description in the surface= guidelines rather than >>> the name. >>> >>> My question then however, is exactly what to tag the tracks beyond >>> "unpaved". >>> >>> There are definitely sections that are somewhat regularly graded and >>> appear to have extra aggregate/fine gravel added. From the surface= wiki, >>> these most closely align with surface=compacted. But fine_gravel is >>> potentially an option too. Many of these are 2wd accessible when it is dry. >>> (Typically smoothness=bad.) >>> >>> There are also others, usually less travelled, which are bare rock, >>> clay, dirt, sand, whatever was there. Is it best just to leave these as >>> surface=unpaved, and add a smoothness=very_bad or horrible tag? None of the >>> surface= tags really seem to apply. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 16:45, Little Maps <mapslit...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Brian and co, in Victoria and southern NSW where I've edited a lot >>>> of roads, highway=track is nearly totally confined to dirt roads in >>>> forested areas, as described in the Aus tagging guidelines, viz: " >>>> highway=track Gravel fire trails, forest drives, 4WD trails and similar >>>> roads. Gravel roads connecting towns etc. should be tagged as appropriate >>>> (secondary, tertiary or unclassified), along with the surface=unpaved or >>>> more specific surface=* tag." >>>> >>>> In your US-chat someone wrote, "...in the USA, "most" roads that "most" >>>> people encounter (around here, in my experience, YMMV...) are >>>> surface=paved. Gravel or dirt roads are certainly found, but they are less >>>> and less common." By contrast, in regional Australia, most small roads are >>>> unpaved/dirt/gravel. >>>> >>>> In SE Australia, public roads in agricultural areas that are >>>> unpaved/dirt/gravel/etc are usually tagged as highway=unclassified (or >>>> tertiary etc), not highway=track. There are some exceptions in some small >>>> regions (for example in the Rutherglen area in NE Victoria) where really >>>> poor, rough 'double track' tracks on public road easements have >>>> systematically been tagged with highway=track rather than >>>> highway=unclassified. See here for example: >>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/-36.1424/146.3683 >>>> . However, this is not the norm in SE Australia and across the border >>>> in southern NSW, this type of road is nearly always tagged as unclassified, >>>> as it is elsewhere in Victoria. In SE Australia, my experience is that >>>> tracks are tagged in the more traditional way, and not as has been done in >>>> the USA. >>>> >>>> If I could ask you a related question, what do you US mappers call >>>> "gravel"? The approved OSM tag for surface=gravel >>>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface> refers to railway >>>> ballast, not the fine crushed rock or natural surface that usually occurs >>>> on unpaved roads in Australia. However we call the fine unpaved surface >>>> "gravel" in common parlance, and many unpaved roads that don't constitute >>>> gravel as described in the OSM wiki have been tagged as gravel here, >>>> erroneously depending on your point of view. How do you use the >>>> surface=gravel tag in the USA? Cheers Ian >>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 2:49 PM Brian M. Sperlongano < >>>> zelonew...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello all, >>>>> >>>>> Recently, there was a discussion on the talk-us list regarding how we >>>>> use the tag highway=track. That discussion begins here: >>>>> >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2021-February/020878.html >>>>> >>>>> During that discussion, someone suggested that Australian mappers may >>>>> also be using the highway=track tag in a similar way to US mappers. Hence >>>>> this message :) >>>>> >>>>> I've recently made edits to the wiki page for highway=track describing >>>>> how the tag is used in the USA: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrack#Usage_in_the_United_States >>>>> >>>>> If there is similarly a local variation in how this tag is used, I >>>>> would encourage the Australian community to document their usage as well. >>>>> >>>>> Brian Sperlongano >>>>> Rhode Island, USA >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Talk-au mailing list >>>>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Talk-au mailing list >>>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >>>> >>> > _______________________________________________ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >
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