> So it is perfectly fine to add the street number and name, just not the postal code from an official source.
I assume if the address has a web site associated with it that has the postcode on it then that is an acceptable source? Cheerio John On 10 August 2016 at 11:03, Kevin Farrugia <kevinfarru...@gmail.com> wrote: > For clarification - Canada Post only owns the postal code, the address > itself (123 Main St.) is created and approved by the municipality, so it's > their data and they can release that data if they wish to. > > So it is perfectly fine to add the street number and name, just not the > postal code from an official source. > > On Aug 10, 2016 11:00 AM, "Adam Martin" <s.adam.mar...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hey Bjenk, >> >> On the Address data, the Talk-CA group has had several discussions about >> it. The problem boils down to Canada Post, which treats the information as >> proprietary - they provide any individual going to their site the right to >> lookup an address in order to utilize their service to mail items. The >> actual database is theirs and even the postal code on my home is theirs, >> I'm just allowed to use it. This all likely has more to do with the fact >> that they have a service that links the addresses to mapped locations that >> is, of course, available only for those willing to pay for it. If they >> allowed OSM to integrate this information, they would lose that revenue >> stream. >> >> Suffice it to say that, apart from an individual adding their address >> manually to the map, Canada Post is not about to allow any party to use >> that information freely. >> >> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) < >> bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca> wrote: >> >>> The postal code subject is interesting for many reasons. I read that >>> France has released a National address database, publically and free. >>> >>> >>> >>> There must be a way we can follow that example. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am still catching up, haha! >>> >>> >>> >>> Bjenk >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* john whelan [mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com] >>> *Sent:* August-06-16 7:23 PM >>> *To:* Laura O'Grady <la...@lauraogrady.ca> >>> *Cc:* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>; Ellefsen, >>> Bjenk (STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>; Stewart C. Russell < >>> scr...@gmail.com> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada >>> >>> >>> >>> The postcode battle is being fought on the Open Data side. There is an >>> open data mailing list whose name escapes me where they have been playing >>> for years to get the postcode data including access to information requests. >>> >>> Tracy at Carleton University is well connected on the Open Data side and >>> the postcode saga. There is some hope now that the UK post office has made >>> the UK ones available. >>> >>> For the moment many commercial companies do list their postcode on their >>> web sites and the the commercial buildings that are the ones of interest to >>> Stats Canada. >>> >>> I suspect Bjenk will have fun when he checks his email on Monday morning >>> when he arrives in the office. We've been quite chatty over the weekend. >>> >>> Cheerio John >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6 Aug 2016 7:02 pm, "Laura O'Grady" <la...@lauraogrady.ca> wrote: >>> >>> There's a form [1] requesting this data set. Not sure if posting a >>> request will help as we know this has been going on for years. >>> >>> >>> >>> You can get the Forward Sortation Areas in a boundary file [2], which >>> can be exported from the db. I noticed the disclaimer, "This data includes >>> information copied with permission from Canada Post Corporation". But of >>> course this is incomplete. I wonder if it's the latter 3 characters, >>> the Local Delivery Unit, which can pinpoint to individual households is >>> being suppressed for privacy reasons. >>> >>> >>> >>> As an academic we battled Stats Can for years for access to data that >>> was paid for by taxpayer dollars. Eventually we won. So there's a precedent >>> of sorts. >>> >>> >>> >>> Has anyone tried filing a freedom of information request for the postal >>> codes? >>> >>> >>> >>> Laura >>> >>> >>> >>> - >>> >>> Laura O'Grady >>> >>> la...@lauraogrady.ca >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> [1] http://open.canada.ca/en/suggested-datasets/postal-code-database >>> >>> [2] https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/geo/ >>> bound-limit/bound-limit-2011-eng.cfm >>> >>> >>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 2:12 PM, john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I understand the current intent is data.gc.ca >>> >>> There is actually a lot of postcode data in Ottawa adhresses as it >>> stands especially for commercial buildings. Don't hold your breath for >>> Canada Post and postcodes. >>> >>> Some attributes they would like at the moment I can't see how a mapper >>> would map them from physically looking at the building. >>> >>> If nothing else it should clean up the map. For that reason it would be >>> nice to be able to pull chunks into JOSM and go over it looking for obvious >>> errors and spelling mistakes in tags. Maperitive has the ability to >>> extract the tags and export them in spreadsheet format which is good for >>> this sort of thing but you need a source to feed it. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheerio John >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6 August 2016 at 12:38, Stewart C. Russell <scr...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi John - some great points here. >>> >>> > My understanding is currently he’s looking getting hold of the City of >>> > Ottawa building outline data and making it available to OpenStreetMap >>> > without the current license restriction. >>> >>> This would be wonderful. It would be ideal if the data could be placed >>> on data.gc.ca and use the OGL-CA v2 licence. OSM can't use any data >>> under the City of Ottawa Open Data - Terms of use >>> <http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-terms-use>. I >>> also have my doubts about the acceptability of the Statistics Canada >>> Open Licence Agreement <http://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/reference/licence>. >>> OGL-CA v2, though, we know to be acceptable. >>> >>> Also, if there were to be an import, we *must* follow the >>> Import/Guidelines >>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines> or risk having >>> any new imports deleted. The recent LA building import provides a decent >>> template, but there are no imports without the Data Working Group having >>> knowledge of it. >>> >>> [** Bjenk: if all this seems gibberish, please ping me off-list, and I'd >>> be happy to have a chat. Despite my previous flippant comments, I think >>> this is a great project.] >>> >>> To some more of John's points: >>> >>> > He’s also asking for the building outline to be tagged with the address >>> > including postcode. Which is interesting as currently each node of >>> > store within a building might have part of the address. >>> >>> For sure. I looked at the City of Ottawa data, and getting it to mesh >>> with existing address points and ranges in OSM is going to be >>> challenging: >>> >>> * fixing street naming to meet OSM standards (so Ottawa's 991 CARLING >>> AVE would have to become addr:housenumber=991 and addr:street=Carling >>> Avenue). Not impossible, but would need some manual oversight >>> >>> * Inconsistent application of French to some street names, English to >>> others, and no obvious metadata to distinguish language >>> >>> * some buildings in mixed-use neighbourhoods will have multiple address >>> points, all containing the same address (eg St Stephen's on Parkdale Ave >>> has three 579 Parkdale Ave nodes) >>> >>> * some buildings just plain don't have address points nearby (like the >>> Agri-Food Canada Building on Carling Ave) >>> >>> * rationalizing address points with existing address ranges. >>> >>> And then there's the postal code problem. If Stat Canada can bring us a >>> licence-compatible data set of full codes that Canada Post *won't* try >>> to sue us over, that would be glorious. I'm not sure we could get enough >>> traction with the general Canadian public to do the "Free the Postcode" >>> initiative like in the UK to make this useful as a crowdsourcing effort. >>> >>> > … One problem I see arising is a new mapper mapping to the >>> > Stats Canada guide lines using iD changes one or more existing tags. I >>> > do a fair amount of validation in HOT and some newer mappers either >>> > completely ignore or misunderstand the instructions. >>> >>> Yes, this can be a problem with newer mappers. There would need to be a >>> careful data quality metric, but also an understanding that unpaid, >>> crowdsourced data may always have errors. >>> >>> Big project. Genuine opportunities for learning and value on all sides. >>> >>> cheers, >>> >>> Stewart >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Talk-ca mailing list >>> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Talk-ca mailing list >>> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Talk-ca mailing list >>> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Talk-ca mailing list >> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > >
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