Got it! Have changed my code to use addr:housename for TASE6 starting from now and will update the already imported data too to reflect this change.
Среда, 25 сентября 2019, 21:21 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" <j...@nutiteq.com>: > > > According to https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/addr:neighbourhood#map it > is almost only used in Japan and Turkey, which do have specific own addressing > systems. Same taginfo shows that Id supports it in general, but I would not > take it into brand new use here. > > To the original question. I now downloaded full ADS database and checked > samples and it seems that TASE6 is used in rural places for farm names, and if > farm has several buildings (e.g. barn) then it can have additional house > numbers in TASE7. So no problem to use addr:housename + addr:housenumber > combination. > > Jaak > > >On 25 Sep 2019, at 16:33, SviMik via Talk-ee < talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > > wrote: > >addr:neighbourhood seems like some barely proposed feature. I can't find > anything decent on the wiki abot this tag. Even worse, there's no even > proposal page. Is it really supported by any software? Can you give me some > description for this tag? > > > > > >Среда, 25 сентября 2019, 15:30 +03:00 от "Vitali Balandin" < v...@hot.ee >: > >> > >>Depends on the situation, most often this is former gardening. In that case, > I > >>would suggest taking advantage addr:neighbourhood > >> > >>вт, 24 сент. 2019 г. в 23:47, < talk-ee-requ...@openstreetmap.org >: > >>>Send Talk-ee mailing list submissions to > >>> talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > >>> > >>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > >>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >>> talk-ee-requ...@openstreetmap.org > >>> > >>>You can reach the person managing the list at > >>> talk-ee-ow...@openstreetmap.org > >>> > >>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >>>than "Re: Contents of Talk-ee digest..." > >>> > >>> > >>>Today's Topics: > >>> > >>> 1. Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place või > >>> addr:housename? (SviMik) > >>> 2. Re: Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place või > >>> addr:housename? (Jaak Laineste) > >>> 3. Re: verbatium buiding import discussion (Jaak Laineste) > >>> 4. Re: verbatium buiding import discussion (SviMik) > >>> > >>> > >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>>Message: 1 > >>>Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 17:51:48 +0300 > >>>From: SviMik < svi...@mail.ru > > >>>To: talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > >>>Subject: [Talk-ee] Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place > >>> või addr:housename? > >>>Message-ID: < 1569336708.131737...@f515.i.mail.ru > > >>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >>> > >>>Hi all, > >>> > >>>I have a tagging puzzle here. Maa-amet classifies address parts in the > >>following way: > >>> > >>>Tase 3 – asustusüksus ja linnaosa > >>>Tase 4 – väikekoht > >>>Tase 5 – liikluspind (tänav) > >>>Tase 6 – maaüksuse nimi > >>>Tase 7 – aadressi number > >>> > >>>The problem is, that many buildings in Estonia do not have Tase 5 (street > >>name), but instead have Tase 6 (lot name) and may or may not have Tase 7 > >>(housenumber) at the same time. > >>> > >>>According to OSM wiki, addr:place is "part of an address which refers to > the > >>name of some territorial zone". > >>>Looks perfect so far, "the name of some territorial zone" is literally > >>"maaüksuse nimi". > >>>But... > >>>1. addr:place requires place=* node or area to be mapped too, which is not > >>really doable for every land lot. > >>>2. I'm already using addr:place for Tase 4 (väikekoht, aiandusühistu, etc) > >>which fits better for this role. > >>> > >>>We could use addr:housename for this instead. > >>>Indeed, Tase 6 is often used as a replacement for the street+number scheme, > >>and in most cases is literally the property name. > >>>But... > >>>1. Sometimes Tase 6 comes with Tase 7 (housenumber). I'm not sure if > >>addr:housename can be used together with addr:housenumber, the > addr:housename > >>sounds like it must be the final address part. > >>> > >>>Examples with house number: > >>> > >>>Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Leesi küla;Kasemäe;1 > >>>Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Leesi küla;Kasemäe;2 > >>>- here Kasemäe is tase6, not street (tase5), but it still uses house > >>numbering. This example looks like addr:place. > >>> > >>>Lääne-Viru maakond;Kadrina vald;Arbavere küla;Palkoja baas > >>>Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Vihasoo küla;Pumbamaja > >>>Harju maakond;Anija vald;Härmakosu küla;Härmakosu tehnopark > >>>- here the last part is tase6 too. They don't have house numbers, and these > >>examles do look like addr:housename. > >>> > >>>So, the questions is: where exactly do I put the Maa-amet "Tase 6" address > >>part in OSM tagging scheme? > >>>And is it OK to use addr:housename together with addr:housenumber? > >>> > >>>-- > >>>SviMik > >>> > >>>------------------------------ > >>> > >>>Message: 2 > >>>Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 18:16:23 +0300 > >>>From: Jaak Laineste < j...@nutiteq.com > > >>>To: SviMik < svi...@mail.ru >, OpenStreetMap Estonia > >>> < talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > > >>>Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – > >>> addr:place või addr:housename? > >>>Message-ID: < f5934565-8e26-47a9-ab02-1c4a36384...@nutiteq.com > > >>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >>> > >>> > >>>There is a wiki page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Et:Key:addr ., > I > >>think it is basically tase 5: housename, tase 6: housenumber if I get the > >>question right. > >>> > >>>Feel free to enhance the wiki page, not everyone reads talk-ee, but wiki is > >>more official doc :) > >>> > >>> > >>>Jaak > >>> > >>> > >>>>On 24 Sep 2019, at 17:51, SviMik via Talk-ee < talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > > > >>wrote: > >>>> > >>>>Hi all, > >>>> > >>>>I have a tagging puzzle here. Maa-amet classifies address parts in the > >>following way: > >>>> > >>>>Tase 3 – asustusüksus ja linnaosa > >>>>Tase 4 – väikekoht > >>>>Tase 5 – liikluspind (tänav) > >>>>Tase 6 – maaüksuse nimi > >>>>Tase 7 – aadressi number > >>>> > >>>>The problem is, that many buildings in Estonia do not have Tase 5 (street > >>name), but instead have Tase 6 (lot name) and may or may not have Tase 7 > >>(housenumber) at the same time. > >>>> > >>>>According to OSM wiki, addr:place is "part of an address which refers to > >>the name of some territorial zone". > >>>>Looks perfect so far, "the name of some territorial zone" is literally > >>"maaüksuse nimi". > >>>>But... > >>>>1. addr:place requires place=* node or area to be mapped too, which is not > >>really doable for every land lot. > >>>>2. I'm already using addr:place for Tase 4 (väikekoht, aiandusühistu, etc) > >>which fits better for this role. > >>>> > >>>>We could use addr:housename for this instead. > >>>>Indeed, Tase 6 is often used as a replacement for the street+number > scheme, > >>and in most cases is literally the property name. > >>>>But... > >>>>1. Sometimes Tase 6 comes with Tase 7 (housenumber). I'm not sure if > >>addr:housename can be used together with addr:housenumber, the > addr:housename > >>sounds like it must be the final address part. > >>>> > >>>>Examples with house number: > >>>> > >>>>Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Leesi küla;Kasemäe;1 > >>>>Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Leesi küla;Kasemäe;2 > >>>>- here Kasemäe is tase6, not street (tase5), but it still uses house > >>numbering. This example looks like addr:place. > >>>> > >>>>Lääne-Viru maakond;Kadrina vald;Arbavere küla;Palkoja baas > >>>>Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Vihasoo küla;Pumbamaja > >>>>Harju maakond;Anija vald;Härmakosu küla;Härmakosu tehnopark > >>>>- here the last part is tase6 too. They don't have house numbers, and > these > >>examles do look like addr:housename. > >>>> > >>>>So, the questions is: where exactly do I put the Maa-amet "Tase 6" address > >>part in OSM tagging scheme? > >>>>And is it OK to use addr:housename together with addr:housenumber? > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>SviMik > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>Talk-ee mailing list > >>>>Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > >>>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>------------------------------ > >>> > >>>Message: 3 > >>>Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:08:08 +0300 > >>>From: Jaak Laineste < j...@nutiteq.com > > >>>To: SviMik < svi...@mail.ru > > >>>Cc: OpenStreetMap Estonia < talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > > >>>Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] verbatium buiding import discussion > >>>Message-ID: < d349d740-71f0-4f2c-b2eb-1af6c2ca4...@nutiteq.com > > >>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >>> > >>> > >>>These txt reports with IDs are not too visual, can you create any > renderable > >>file for josm (.osm for example) or screenshot to show the community what it > >>really means? Are the building under question random or somehow in specific > >>areas etc. I dont know if there is any "test osm server” for such > experiments > >>nowadays somewhere, probably not. > >>> > >>>Jaak > >>> > >>>>On 24 Sep 2019, at 07:50, SviMik < svi...@mail.ru > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>I have analyzed the largest verbatium's import (changesets 591093, 579407, > >>572107, 569277, 569055 (ways) + 561094, 559707, 558636, 558056, 557568, > >>557358, 557193, 556899 (nodes only)), which was made in 2008. That covers > >>86.7% of all his edits. > >>>>The import was covering Tallinn, Saue and Maardu. Turned out verbatium > >>wasn't particulary active outside Harjumaa. > >>>>There were total 67813 ways imported, 9032 of them are already deleted by > >>other editors, and 17878 were changed either in geometry or tags* department > >>(15529 has a geometry change, and 5077 has a tag change), which leaves 40903 > >>buildings for deletion. > >>>>* I did not count the following tags because they are part of my imports > >>anyway: addr:city, addr:country, addr:housenumber, addr:street, > maaamet:ETAK, > >>maaamet:orig_tunnus, source, source:addr, addr2:* > >>>>* If some change was reverted I do not count it as a change, because I > only > >>compare the first and the last version > >>>> > >>>>Here is the list of ways for deletion: > >>>>http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways_unchanged1.txt > >>>> > >>>>Here is the full report for all the 67813 ways: > >>>>http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways1.csv > >>>> > >>>>Full list of his changesets: > >>>>http://svimik.com/verbatium_changesets.xls > >>>> > >>>>Currently, the bbox of his changesets has 91324 buildings, which means... > >>We're gonna delete 44.79% of Saue-Tallinn-Maardu buildings. That gonna be > >>interesting. Should we split it by 10k for example? Or just start with > Maardu > >>and see what happens? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>Воскресенье, 15 сентября 2019, 9:42 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" < > >>j...@nutiteq.com >: > >>>>>Hoi, > >>>>> > >>>>>Jah, need peaks kustutama. Enne võiks teha muudatuse analüüsi - kui palju > >>ja > >>>>>kus kustutataks, ega mõned linnad kohe väga tühjaks ei jää. > >>>>> > >>>>>Jaak > >>>>> > >>>>>p.s. sama asi ka corine impordi osade tag-idega, näiteks põllud (field), > >>need > >>>>>on pigem müra kui info kaardil. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>On 14 Sep 2019, at 15:34, SviMik via Talk-ee < > talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > >>> > >>>>>wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Hi everyone! > >>>>>> > >>>>>>I'd like to discuss the import made by verbatium in 2008: > >>>>>>https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/569055 > >>>>>>(...and other similar changesets) > >>>>>> > >>>>>>There are two issues with that import: > >>>>>>1. Unknown data source with unknown license (probably it was a Garmin > map > >>>>>judging by the Type=0x13 tag) > >>>>>>2. Poor quality of the data. If you see a building distorted like this: > >>>>>http://svimik.com/verbatiumimport1.png > >>>>>>- you can be sure it's verbatium's. Maybe it was OK in 2008, but in 2019 > >>we > >>>>>have much better options. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>What can be done: > >>>>>>1. Remove all buildings which geometry and tags were not edited since > the > >>>>>initial import. For the tags the following exceptions can be made because > >>they > >>>>>were automatic edits: > >>>>>>- User xybot has fixed the tag typo (buildung=yes) in the initial import > >>and > >>>>>added its own tag (created_by=xybot) > >>>>>>- User juhanjuku has removed the Type=0x13 and created_by=xybot tags > >>>>>>- User SviMik_import has imported the address tags to these buildings > >>from > >>>>>the Maa-amet database (nothing that can't be imported again) > >>>>>>2. Proceed with the Maa-amet building import as usual > >>>>>> > >>>>>>It will solve: > >>>>>>1. The license issue (if there is any) > >>>>>>2. The quality issue (if you agree there is an issue) > >>>>>>3. Will update the map in general, for example the demolished buildings > >>will > >>>>>be removed from OSM. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>For buildings which geometry was changed by other contributors after the > >>>>>initial import - we can assume both license and quality issues were > solved > >>>>>since they no longer contain the imported geometry. I know it's a grey > >>field, > >>>>>and I'm not sure it works like that, but at least these buildings do have > >>some > >>>>>excuse to stay. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>For buildings which geometry was NOT changed, but some POI tags were > >>added - > >>>>>let them stay for now and discuss it later if needed. I suspect it will > be > >>a > >>>>>rare case, but the exact number is unknown right now. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Questions: > >>>>>>1. Has anyone else digged into the issue, maybe asked verbatium himself? > >>>>>>2. Can anyone confirm that the import indeed has the license problem? > >>>>>>3. Is the proposed plan good? (in case if you agree that it needs to be > >>>>>fixed) > >>>>>> > >>>>>>-- > >>>>>>SviMik > >>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>Talk-ee mailing list > >>>>>>Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > >>>>>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>Svjatoslav Mikhailov > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>------------------------------ > >>> > >>>Message: 4 > >>>Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 23:46:36 +0300 > >>>From: SviMik < svi...@mail.ru > > >>>To: Jaak Laineste < j...@nutiteq.com > > >>>Cc: OpenStreetMap Estonia < talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > > >>>Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] verbatium buiding import discussion > >>>Message-ID: < 1569357996.361134...@f466.i.mail.ru > > >>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >>> > >>>http://svimik.com/verbatiumimportmap1.png > >>>Here's the screenshot. Not precise, but gives some idea. > >>>40903 buildings is a bit too much for JOSM. > >>> > >>> > >>>Вторник, 24 сентября 2019, 22:08 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" < > j...@nutiteq.com > >>>: > >>>> > >>>>These txt reports with IDs are not too visual, can you create any > >>renderable > >>>>file for josm (.osm for example) or screenshot to show the community what > >>it > >>>>really means? Are the building under question random or somehow in > specific > >>>>areas etc. I dont know if there is any "test osm server” for such > >>experiments > >>>>nowadays somewhere, probably not. > >>>> > >>>>Jaak > >>>> > >>>>>On 24 Sep 2019, at 07:50, SviMik < svi...@mail.ru > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>I have analyzed the largest verbatium's import (changesets 591093, > >>579407, > >>>>572107, 569277, 569055 (ways) + 561094, 559707, 558636, 558056, 557568, > >>>>557358, 557193, 556899 (nodes only)), which was made in 2008. That covers > >>>>86.7% of all his edits. > >>>>>The import was covering Tallinn, Saue and Maardu. Turned out verbatium > >>>>wasn't particulary active outside Harjumaa. > >>>>>There were total 67813 ways imported, 9032 of them are already deleted by > >>>>other editors, and 17878 were changed either in geometry or tags* > >>department > >>>>(15529 has a geometry change, and 5077 has a tag change), which leaves > >>40903 > >>>>buildings for deletion. > >>>>>* I did not count the following tags because they are part of my imports > >>>>anyway: addr:city, addr:country, addr:housenumber, addr:street, > >>maaamet:ETAK, > >>>>maaamet:orig_tunnus, source, source:addr, addr2:* > >>>>>* If some change was reverted I do not count it as a change, because I > >>only > >>>>compare the first and the last version > >>>>> > >>>>>Here is the list of ways for deletion: > >>>>>http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways_unchanged1.txt > >>>>> > >>>>>Here is the full report for all the 67813 ways: > >>>>>http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways1.csv > >>>>> > >>>>>Full list of his changesets: > >>>>>http://svimik.com/verbatium_changesets.xls > >>>>> > >>>>>Currently, the bbox of his changesets has 91324 buildings, which means... > >>>>We're gonna delete 44.79% of Saue-Tallinn-Maardu buildings. That gonna be > >>>>interesting. Should we split it by 10k for example? Or just start with > >>Maardu > >>>>and see what happens? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>Воскресенье, 15 сентября 2019, 9:42 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" > >>>>< j...@nutiteq.com >: > >>>>>>Hoi, > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Jah, need peaks kustutama. Enne võiks teha muudatuse analüüsi - kui > >>palju > >>>>ja > >>>>>>kus kustutataks, ega mõned linnad kohe väga tühjaks ei jää. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Jaak > >>>>>> > >>>>>>p.s. sama asi ka corine impordi osade tag-idega, näiteks põllud (field), > >>>>need > >>>>>>on pigem müra kui info kaardil. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>On 14 Sep 2019, at 15:34, SviMik via Talk-ee < > >>talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > > >>>>>>wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Hi everyone! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>I'd like to discuss the import made by verbatium in 2008: > >>>>>>>https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/569055 > >>>>>>>(...and other similar changesets) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>There are two issues with that import: > >>>>>>>1. Unknown data source with unknown license (probably it was a Garmin > >>map > >>>>>>judging by the Type=0x13 tag) > >>>>>>>2. Poor quality of the data. If you see a building distorted like this: > >>>>>>http://svimik.com/verbatiumimport1.png > >>>>>>>- you can be sure it's verbatium's. Maybe it was OK in 2008, but in > >>2019 > >>>>we > >>>>>>have much better options. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>What can be done: > >>>>>>>1. Remove all buildings which geometry and tags were not edited since > >>the > >>>>>>initial import. For the tags the following exceptions can be made > >>because > >>>>they > >>>>>>were automatic edits: > >>>>>>>- User xybot has fixed the tag typo (buildung=yes) in the initial > >>import > >>>>and > >>>>>>added its own tag (created_by=xybot) > >>>>>>>- User juhanjuku has removed the Type=0x13 and created_by=xybot tags > >>>>>>>- User SviMik_import has imported the address tags to these buildings > >>from > >>>>>>the Maa-amet database (nothing that can't be imported again) > >>>>>>>2. Proceed with the Maa-amet building import as usual > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>It will solve: > >>>>>>>1. The license issue (if there is any) > >>>>>>>2. The quality issue (if you agree there is an issue) > >>>>>>>3. Will update the map in general, for example the demolished buildings > >>>>will > >>>>>>be removed from OSM. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>For buildings which geometry was changed by other contributors after > >>the > >>>>>>initial import - we can assume both license and quality issues were > >>solved > >>>>>>since they no longer contain the imported geometry. I know it's a grey > >>>>field, > >>>>>>and I'm not sure it works like that, but at least these buildings do > >>have > >>>>some > >>>>>>excuse to stay. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>For buildings which geometry was NOT changed, but some POI tags were > >>added > >>>>- > >>>>>>let them stay for now and discuss it later if needed. I suspect it will > >>be > >>>>a > >>>>>>rare case, but the exact number is unknown right now. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Questions: > >>>>>>>1. Has anyone else digged into the issue, maybe asked verbatium > >>himself? > >>>>>>>2. Can anyone confirm that the import indeed has the license problem? > >>>>>>>3. Is the proposed plan good? (in case if you agree that it needs to be > >>>>>>fixed) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>-- > >>>>>>>SviMik > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>Talk-ee mailing list > >>>>>>>Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > >>>>>>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>------------------------------ > >>> > >>>Subject: Digest Footer > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>Talk-ee mailing list > >>>Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > >>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > >>> > >>> > >>>------------------------------ > >>> > >>>End of Talk-ee Digest, Vol 95, Issue 7 > >>>************************************** > >> > > > > > >-- > >Svjatoslav Mikhailov > >_______________________________________________ > >Talk-ee mailing list > >Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > -- Svjatoslav Mikhailov _______________________________________________ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
