On 06/12/2011 12:54, Stephen Gower wrote:
On Mon, Dec 05, 2011 at 05:44:48PM +0000, David Earl wrote:
I was appointed to the project from that [...]
Congratulations!
Thank you!
and also published the tagging schema I'm working to (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cambridge/University_of_Cambridge )
Can I pursuade you to remove the "(University of Cambridge)" string from the
name= keys?
1) It's incorrect, unless the parenthesis are genuinely in the name of the
College/Dept/etc.
2) It's duplicated by data in the operator= field
3) It makes for ugly maps
Thanks for the comment.
I'm not overly wedded to "name=Clare College (University of Cambridge)"
and the like. Indeed, for the University rendering I will be removing
these suffixes automatically because the context and colours will make
it completely obvious.
I'm largely following the existing convention for the CU institutions
(which admittedly I probably started way, way back).
However, the reason is precisely to make non-specialised maps more
helpful. If you don't know, there is no clue that "New Museums Site" as
a caption on the map has any connection with the University (or indeed,
as there are two universities in Cambridge, which), and arguably the
University of Cambridge bit is the more important part.
You can argue, and I would probably agree, that this is to some extent
"tagging for the renderer", and now that I'm making the operator tags
ubiquitous the otherwise missing information is now there. On the other
hand, is ANY non-specialist renderer going to take any notice? I doubt
it. You'd have to dig deep and quite technically to discover the info.
Regarding point 1, it's the colleges and sites that are the issue[1]. I
think 'incorrect' is too strong. The naming is hierarchical in some
sense. The New Museums Site is part of the wider University of
Cambridge, and just as in some contexts you need to qualify Cambridge as
"Cambridge, Cambridgeshire, England" (so not Cambridge, MA, USA or
Cambridge, Gloucestershire, England) to inform and to avoid ambiguity,
so here also.
The colleges are slightly different in that they are independent, but
but affiliated[2] to the University. But spelling that relationship out
is overkill - many of the colleges describe themselves as this in the
way I have done (usually without the parentheses) on their web sites
and/or display the University's logo (though some just say "X College,
Cambridge" - some are more independently minded than others).
So:
- it makes no difference to the University project either way
- I think it produces more helpful, useful maps
- but longer captions do have visual problems
Finally, a couple of related points:
* Many of the colleges have satellite sites. For example "The Colony"
and "Cripps Court". I and others have actually named these along the
lines of "The Colony (Clare College)", "Cripps Court (Magdalene
College)" which by the strict argument above shouldn't be. But I doubt
even the majority of Cambridge people would have a clue what that was
about without the qualifying information. Should that go too? If it
stays, why not the others? Or conversely, should it actually be "The
Colony (Clare College, University of Cambridge)" or some such.
* Cripps Court is an interesting example, because both Magdalene and
Selwyn Colleges have satellite sites named Cripps Court. Qualification
here resolves serious ambiguity in the absence of other information
presented on typical maps.
* The same is true for many non University premises as well. "Castle
Court" vs "Castle Court (Cambridgeshire County Council)", with
completely analogous operator/occupier etc, and helpfulness considerations.
* Why are we naming shops according to their occupants? If we take this
argument to its limits, no premises should be named like this. It's a
pragmatism vs. pedantry argument.
What do other people think? If there's a strong view not to have these
parenthesised bits there, I'll take them out of the name tags.
David
[1] departments aren't geographical features, and I am indeed replacing
those with the names of the buildings which they occupy - though
sometimes a building is christened according to the department occupying
it and confusingly that sticks long after the department has moved! I
have resisted the temptation to put "name=Austin Building (University
Computing Service)"
[2] my word, not the formal description of the relationship
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