> the "fair use" clause. Which specific legislation are you referring to.
On 12 May 2017 17:10, "Ilya Zverev" <i...@zverev.info> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > First, I was amazed at the response. Thanks for constructive feedback, > which I answer below, and no thanks for toxic responses, including asking > for money (what money? We — as in maps.me — get none out of this) and > imposing impossible restrictions (manually investigate context for each of > thousands of points?). No import is perfect, and I cannot make this one too > good for you. But it is pretty okay to me. > > I have refined the tag processing script. Removed name tags, changed > postal_code to addr:postcode and formatted phone numbers according to the > wikipedia table. "Navads" is appended to the source tag if present. I am > not sure if I should add the brand:wikidata=Q154950 tag, and for now > decided against that. > > You can see the updated result here: http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ > ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/ (with OpenStreetMap and Satellite > layers). > > Also I have started the wiki page: https://wiki.openstreetmap. > org/wiki/Navads_Imports > > * Geocoding and accuracy: as I see on the map, all points in the dataset > are placed properly on top of the fuel stations. The error based on OSM > data is mostly inside 10 meters. I will ask NavAds for coordinate source > for further datasets, but since most points are already in OSM, I think > that would fall into the "fair use" clause. In this import, only 125 points > are added as unmatched. > > * Other fuel stations inside 50 meters: I have found only one instance > where the brand was changed. It is here: https://goo.gl/maps/9GLTVg1EWR82 > . The Street View from 2015 shows the BP station, but the map lists both BP > and Shell. I assume the fuel station was overtaken in the past two years. > > Then I filtered fuel stations with the ref_distance > 30 meters (there are > eight) and placed them on satellite imagery. Looks like that all of these > are correct, and the big distances come from placement errors in OSM. > > * Official information vs on the ground: five objects have their opening > hours changed. I assume Shell knows how their fuel stations work. Regarding > other tags, only phone and addr:postcode replace OSM values (11 and 9 > changed); other tags, including operator, are preserved. In the Frederik's > hypothetical example, the number of rooms will be added only if there are > no such tag on the already existing hotel. > > * Freshness: Navads will update the data when Shell provides the update. > It is as fresh as can be, but your changes to OSM won't be overwritten: if > you saw opening hours changed, do update these. By the way, Robert's > example about mismatch between opening hours on the Shell website and in > the data is incorrect, I checked it and they match. > > * Five Ways Roundabout issue: I have forwarded that to NavAds. Also I > asked them about links to branches (I cannot find any on the Shell website > though) and names. > > * "The general view seems to be against IDs like this": what has happened > with the principle "any tags you like"? Did we saturate the key space and > not accepting new keys anymore? Can I read that "general view" documented > anywhere? The "ref:navads_shell" key is the only one that is not verifiable > on the ground, and is clearly added so the further updates do not have to > rely on matching. > > Ilya > > > 12 мая 2017 г., в 1:22, Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> написал(а): > > > > Hi, > > > > On 05/11/2017 05:39 PM, Ilya Zverev wrote: > >> Together with the NavAds company, we plan to import a thousand Shell > >> fuel stations to the United Kingdom. The source is official, which > >> means, Shell company specifically shared the dataset to put them on > >> maps. Do you have any objections or questions? > > > > There are a couple other "we make your business visible on the map" > > SEO-type businesses active in OSM, some better, some worse. > > > > Typical problems include: > > > > * Geocoding. We will want to know how the lat,lon pairs they use for > > import have been generated. Sometimes the "official" source will > > actually be based on measured GPS coordinates (good). Sometimes the > > "official" source has simly geocoded their address with Google or HERE > > (not admissible, license violation). Sometimes they have geocoded their > > address with OpenStreetMap which is also bad because it can reinforce > > errors or imprecisions - for example, if OSM has an address > > interpolation range along a street, and a POI is placed with a specific > > address at the computed interpolation point, then it looks like a > > precise address but isn't. > > > > * Ignoring the area around the imported information. We want imports to > > match the existing data; automatic conflation is often not enough. A POI > > can end up in a house, a lake, or in the middle of a road, and if that > > is not just a one-off but a systematic problem (of the "let's dump our > > stuff into OSM and the community can then fix it" kind) then it is > > reason enough to revert the whole import and ask the importer to go back > > to the drawing board. > > > > * Mismatch between "official" data and reality. Especially for larger > > chains it can easily happen that the company database doesn't reflect > > reality on the ground, either through an error or because the reality on > > the ground is somehow undesirable. For example, a hotel might be in the > > chain's offical database with 49 rooms because local regulations tighten > > for hotels of 50 rooms and up, but everyone knows in practice that the > > hotel has 60 rooms and this is mapped in OSM. We wouldn't want > > "official" data to overwrite what we have in OSM. > > > > * Advertising. Some SEO companies go as far as putting advertising > > messages in note tags, or invent new tags to describe the business in > > the most colourful terms. While such advertising may occasionally be > > factually correct ("family-owned since 1948"), we're usually not > > interested in that. > > > > These are *general* comments. > > > > Looking at your proposed import specifically, > > > > 1. I'd be interested in the geocoding source as per the first bullet > > point above. Of course this is only relevant to newly added POIs. > > > > 2. It seems to me that you're setting brand, operator, and occasionally > > even name to "Shell". In Germany, the operator of a fuel station is > > usually a small local business that has a franchise relationship with > > the fuel company. Are you absolutely sure that Shell is actually the > > operator of all these fuel stations? (It should be easily visible on a > > receipt you get there.) > > > > 3. Also, in those cases where no name was set before and you put > > "name=Shell", are you absolutely sure that it's not "name=Joe's Garage" > > or something? Would such a situation be correctly recorded in your data? > > I notice that e.g. the station in Dursley with the ID NVDS298-10019092 > > is a proposed import with "name=Shell", whereas Shell's own station > > locator lists this as "Millwood Motor Company Limited". > > > > 4. I would also recommend not plastering the www.shell.co.uk URL all > > over the place - if the *individual* fuel station doesn't have a web > > site then it's not worth pointing to the Shell corporate site IMHO. > > > > 5. New stations look generally well placed compared to aerial imagery (I > > only looked at a random sample) but the second bullet point above is an > > issue; for example you have placed a new fuel station at the correct > > location but in the middle of a school campus > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/query?lat=53.56053&lon=-2. > 12306#map=19/53.56035/-2.12300 > > - a high quality import would have a human verify the sitation, detect > > the issue, and reduce the school grounds accordingly (or maybe call the > > chain and ask if this is some special kind of training fuel station...) > > > > Bye > > Frederik > > > > -- > > Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Imports mailing list > > impo...@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb >
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