On 10.11.2012 10:44, Maurizio Napolitano wrote:
Hi Kay
I like your job but i don't like the license used:
- cc by nc sa is not an open data license
- the nc clausole isn't compatible with the idea behind the
openstreetmap project
- the cc-by-sa (and nc) is not compatible with odbl (the new lincese
used in osm)
I have spent some time trying to figure out an appropriate license. If I
understand these licenses correctly, I am free to choose the license for
the combined work (my GPS map), and I can chose it to be NC and SA. OSM
data are only a small part of the effort. As far as I can tell, the ODBL
gives me freedom to license the final product under licenses like
CC-BY-NC-SA. Anyone wishing to use the OSM data themselves can just
download them for themselves; I have not applied any modifications
(created an adaptation) to the data - I'm only putting a layer on top.
The CTRN is CC-BY and therefore should grant me the same freedom of
choice of license, as it's not SA. I have discussed the license issues,
and I was advised to use CC-BY-NC-SA, because, in theory, it can hinder
people who just download my map and then try and sell it to people who
aren't clever enough to put 'GPS CTRN OSM' into a google search.
Nevertheless I am open to suggestions. Are you implying my choice of
license is illegal? Or is it just that you don't like it? The main work
in creating the map was converting the data to a joint format and
writing styles to display the data on the GPS unit (like, drawing icons
etc.), and I think I am entitled to use the license I've chosen.
Let me quote from the ODBL, since you say my map is 'not compatible'
with it, and comment on it:
*As long as you:*
* /Attribute:/ You must attribute any public use of the database, or
works produced from the database, in the manner specified in the
ODbL. For any use or redistribution of the database, or works
produced from it, you must make clear to others the license of the
database and keep intact any notices on the original database
- I attribute by displaying the standard OSM attribution link on the
splash screen of the GPS davice on loading the map. Generally this is
deemed acceptable and the done thing.
* /Share-Alike:/ If you publicly use any adapted version of this
database, or works produced from an adapted database, you must also
offer that adapted database under the ODbL.
- I have not adapted the data; I have only used the data. AFAICT this
does not count as an adaptation. I think my work is a 'combined work',
or a 'Collective Database'. This is defined thusly in the full legal
text of the ODBL:
"Collective Database" -- Means this Database in unmodified form as part
of a collection of independent databases in themselves that together are
assembled into a collective whole. A work that constitutes a Collective
Database will not be considered a Derivative Database.
Further down it says:
4.5 Limits of Share Alike. The requirements of Section 4.4 do not apply
in the following:
a. For the avoidance of doubt, You are not required to license
Collective Databases under this License if You incorporate this Database
or a Derivative Database in the collection, but this License still
applies to this Database or a Derivative Database as a part of the
Collective Database;
If anyone splits my map to use the OSM tiles themselves (which are
pretty useless outside the context of the styles and TYP I use in my
map) they are free to do so, and the README clearly states what license
the components are under.
* /Keep open:/ If you redistribute the database, or an adapted version
of it, then you may use technological measures that restrict the
work (such as DRM) as long as you also redistribute a version
without such measures.
- Same here. Since I'm not using an adaptation but a derivative work,
using CC-BY-NC-SA on the final product should be correct.
if your goal is improve openstreetmap, your choiche of license is not good
OSM is improved by contribution of data. To gather these data in the
field, precise GPS maps are a great help. The GPS map creation tools
were essential to get the project off the ground, so that FIX-ME data
etc. could be seen on the GPS device. By offering an OSM layer on top of
the CTRN I am helping the community to map more efficiently (At least I
hope so). I can't see your point. Anyone can load and use the map, for
free. What they do with it is up to them, as long as they don't violate
the license. It doesn't get much more liberal than that. What do you
think would be a 'good' license for a GPS map?
I any case i respect you for your job and i'm sure that you know what
you can obtain with this license
I hope I have been able to clarify why I have licensed the map as I
have. Thank you for your encouragement. I am not a lawyer, and the whole
licensing issue is, to me, a waste of time. Nevertheless, to allow the
community to share my work (rather than just enjoying it myself), and to
do this in a legally proper fashion, I had to spend days researching and
corresponding and creating my own styles (rather than using ready-made
ones, which would have introduced yet more licensing issues) to satisfy
all the license requirements. If my understanding of the legal matters
is wrong, please point out specifically where you see conflicts.
The ODBL should have made my work simpler, and when I read through it
carefully I found that there are some subtle changes in the treatment of
derived works (compared to the previous license) which give me more
freedom in licensing the final product than the previous license.
Ps: next friday and saturday there is the national italian conference
about openstreetmap in Torino :)
You are welcome also with a presentation of your job
Thank you for the invitation! But I won't be able to attend, as I'm not
in Italy at all. With a bit of luck, my map will have been used by some
of the community and they may discuss it and spread the word even if I'm
not there.
Kay
Il giorno 10/nov/2012 09:51, "Kay F. Jahnke" <_...@yahoo.com
<mailto:k...@yahoo.com>> ha scritto:
Dear members of the ML!
Since I'm new on the list, let me introduce myself first: my name
is Kay, I've been contributing to OSM for some time now as user kfj:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/kfj
I am german, but I spend much time in the Piedmont, and this is
where I do my mapping. My italian is clumsy, so I write in english.
I have created a GPS vector map of the Piedmont. The map is
intended mainly for hiking and similar outdoor activities; I have
also found it useful for mapping. It is a synopsis of the CTRN
vettoriale 1:10.000 (1991-2005) and OSM data. It's in garmin image
format and runs on my etrex vista hcx, but it should also run on
other GPS units using the same data format. The map is currently
at beta stage, so I have decided to offer it to a limited audience
for evaluation. While I have processed the whole area covered by
the CTRN, I have also made a smaller map of just the northern tip
of the piemontese territory. This smaller section may serve to
establish that the map will function on your side - the complete
map weighs in at some 300MB, so the amount of traffic needed just
to find out it doesn't work for you after all would be a waste of
resources. You can find the sample map here:
http://ubuntuone.com/70ApLzr7jlglmg8BVl9ldN
and the complete map here:
http://ubuntuone.com/6wok0LEk30quYb3ontLs8R
These files are zip-compressed folders containing the map (in
garmin.img format; I trust you know what to do with such a file)
plus a README and some files picked from the CTRN data.
If you just want to know more about the technicalities of the map,
you can download the README file separately from here:
http://ubuntuone.com/0An1JJJwgsrqtm6YleYnBy
I release the maps under CC-BY-NC-SA license, see
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/
I'd appreciate comments - especially concerning the usability on
various GPS devices and also of grave problems with the maps, but
I can't promise to fix reported bugs as my resources are limited.
The technical details can be found in the README accompanying the
map. So far I haven't published my own tool chain - a set of shell
scripts and the various styles and TYP file. I intend to do so
eventually, to allow interested parties to emulate and improve my
work, but I'd prefer to have some feedback first.
This mail was initially sent to talk-it-piemonte, where it was
suggested that it should be posted to talk-it as well.
I've had the first reports coming in already, and one piece of
good news is that the map runs on the c62 as well. A word of
caution: if you install the full map after the sample map, you'll
have to delete the sample. Both together won't work, I assume this
is because I used the same product ID for both. On the etrex which
can't handle multiple maps this isn't an issue. Eventually the
sample map will be taken offline.
Kay F. Jahnke
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