We may be fine adopting this new scheme. So far, the last revision to the
classification scheme is in 2015, but there hasn't been any discussion in
the mailing list, and this could be the only major revision that has been
discussed since we wrote the guidelines back in ~2007.
--TagaSanPedroAko
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 1:45 PM Jherome Miguel <jheromemig...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> In addition, just to repeat and back up my contentions about the present
> definition of primary under the present guidelines, I won't think something
> called a "Camino real" (some kind of obsolete term for a main street of a
> city or town) be tagged a primary at most cases.
>
> Getting back, about the present definition of trunk, I agree with the
> existing definition of "National transportation backbones" (except for some
> additions to accommodate major roads resembling expressways), but I don't
> agree with the "tree chop" method as suggested by Rally to to determine
> trunk routes in OSM. I agree trunk roads are non-expressway highways that
> connect large cities (with populations of 100,000+) and of national
> strategic importance, but I don't think frequent closures and the presence
> of equally important alternate routes make them fail trunk classification.
> Most of what the national government has been designating as "national
> primary roads" (with 1 or 2-digit route numbers) fit that criteria, but not
> those within densely populated areas (e.g. Metro Manila and environs, Metro
> Cebu).
>
> On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 8:29 PM Nick Brown <nick.br...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear Jherome,
>> Seems reasonable to me. Your support documenting the results of the
>> conversation will be very helpful and valuable to us as we'll be working
>> with thousands of mappers this year and need quality guidance on things
>> like this.
>>
>> I've looped in Feye, HOT Ph's Technical & GIS Specialist, to continue the
>> discussion and give her thoughts.
>>
>> Best,
>> Nick
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:31 AM Jherome Miguel <jheromemig...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Moving on, I am also considering special exceptions for roads in small
>>> islands or island provinces (e.g. Marinduque, Romblon, Catanduanes,
>>> Siquijor) where the networks may have nothing else higher than secondary as
>>> many roads there connects municipalities with a population usually below
>>> 100,000 (whole area, not just the town proper), which does not fit the
>>> criteria for primary. I'm also considering writing guides for road
>>> classifications in each province or region (with specifics whenever
>>> possible) to supplement the general guidelines.
>>>
>>> Returning back to the proposal, I think we must narrow down the
>>> definition of primary from "roads providing access to all town centers" to
>>> "roads connecting small cities (population <100,000) and large
>>> municipalities (population >=100,000)" as the former is too broad. The
>>> international OSM definition of a highway=primary is a "road that connects
>>> large towns", and under our present definition of primary, we got short
>>> sections of a local street connecting the highway with the "poblacion",
>>> downtown, or city/town proper (or bypassed and downgraded alignments of
>>> older national highways) and rural highways linking small municipalities
>>> arbitrarily tagged as such even where they can be classified lower based on
>>> the road network topology and other possible criteria (official
>>> classification, purpose, physical characteristics, traffic usage).
>>>
>>> For secondary, it's an improvement to provide a second definition for
>>> those in rural areas, as this would be the better fit for many of the rural
>>> roads linking a small town and is presently tagged as primary. In many
>>> countries, the OSM secondary classification usually goes to the
>>> roads/highways between small towns, and our present guidelines only specify
>>> it on roads in urban areas (though in practice, there are already some
>>> rural roads tagged as secondary, especially those mapped as part of HOT
>>> mapping projects using the guidelines designed for African countries).
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 7:55 PM Nick Brown <nick.br...@hotosm.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This makes complete sense to me. As it is a highway tag, I just think
>>>> it's definition should be clarified and codified in the wiki, especially as
>>>> you're bringing up the discussion on road classifications. Erwin defined it
>>>> for me as " travel route between dwellings, remote settlements, or
>>>> water sources, and for livestock movement. May be the primary access route
>>>> for isolated settlements. Not necessarily paved. Connection way by foot
>>>> within an urban area. Possibly not passable for regular vehicles with 4
>>>> wheels. This is often incorrectly tagged as highway=track."
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 12:48 PM Jherome Miguel <
>>>> jheromemig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I usually use the path tag on informal pedestrian tracks across vacant
>>>>> land (in rural areas) and narrow unnamed alleyways ("eskinita") around
>>>>> crowded residential areas (in urban areas).
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 8:33 PM Nick Brown <nick.br...@hotosm.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for continuing this discussion!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> May I also ask that highway=path be included in the discussion? I
>>>>>> note that it's not currently mentioned in the Philippines Wiki but I see
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> being used regularly by mappers, possibly because of some mappers being
>>>>>> more familiar with
>>>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa than our
>>>>>> local conventions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 4:43 AM Jherome Miguel <
>>>>>> jheromemig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It has been 2-3 months since we shared ideas and opinions on a
>>>>>>> refined and revised road classification scheme, but discussions have
>>>>>>> stalled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So far, my proposal has been like this (for a detailed proposal, see
>>>>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/Mapping_conventions/Roads
>>>>>>> ):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Motorway - controlled-access expressway. Access via ramps only, and
>>>>>>> no entry for pedestrians, bicycles, motorcycles with engine displacement
>>>>>>> below 400cc, tricycles, and animal-drawn vehicles.
>>>>>>> -Trunk - highway between major cities (with population 100,000+),
>>>>>>> and forming the national road transportation backbone; expressways that
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> not have control of access; major roads resembling expressways (with
>>>>>>> ramps,
>>>>>>> U-turns replacing left turns across median, and
>>>>>>> flyovers/overpasses/underpasses at high-traffic intersections) but with
>>>>>>> intersections and property accesses.
>>>>>>> -Primary - (rural) highway between small cities and large town
>>>>>>> centers; (urban) major thoroughfares, usually avenues or boulevards
>>>>>>> -Secondary - (rural) roads between small town centers; (urban) minor
>>>>>>> arteries, usually one connecting 3+ barangays or city districts
>>>>>>> -Tertiary - (rural) roads between barangays (urban), collector
>>>>>>> roads, usually one within a barangay or city district.
>>>>>>> -Unclassified - (rural) other smaller local roads, usually one
>>>>>>> connecting house clusters, or sitios/puroks; (urban) non-residential
>>>>>>> local
>>>>>>> streets
>>>>>>> -Residential - Residential streets, regardless of width
>>>>>>> -Service - property access roads, alleys, drive-thrus, driveways
>>>>>>> -Track - farm tracks, roads only passable to 4x4/4WD vehicles, golf
>>>>>>> course roads used only by golf carts.
>>>>>>> -Pedestrian - streets closed to motor vehicles, or pedestrian
>>>>>>> squares
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have been mapping in Canada for 2 years and finding the road
>>>>>>> classification scheme there better and ideal (with a good distinction
>>>>>>> between urban and rural roads), I am considering using them as a base
>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>> new road classification scheme for the Philippines, but with some
>>>>>>> modifications.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I previously considered retaining the living_street classification
>>>>>>> as there is some consensus to keep it for any street with width below 3
>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>> or passage hindered by obstructions. However, since the successful
>>>>>>> roadside
>>>>>>> clearing operations in 2019 have changed the situation on the ground,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> is no legally defined concept that equals to "living street" in the
>>>>>>> Philippine traffic code (RA 4136) or accompanying laws, and objections
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> been raised on the incorrect use of the tag to mark very narrow streets
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> developing countries aside from the Philippines, I strongly agree
>>>>>>> dropping
>>>>>>> it completely at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There has been no consensus on handling highway bypasses or
>>>>>>> diversion roads, so the classification should be based on their overall
>>>>>>> usage or characteristics. My thoughts is to move the higher
>>>>>>> classification
>>>>>>> to the bypass or diversion if most through traffic take that when
>>>>>>> traveling
>>>>>>> through around the city or town proper (downtown or "poblacion" area),
>>>>>>> otherwise, tag both routes with the same classification and tag the
>>>>>>> implicit default speeds for routing engines to use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --TagaSanPedroAko
>>>>>>> --TagaSanPedroAko
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> talk-ph mailing list
>>>>>>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *Nick Brown*
>>>>>> Country Manager for HOT Philippines
>>>>>> nick.br...@hotosm.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team*
>>>>>> *Using OpenStreetMap for Disaster Risk Reduction, Response &
>>>>>> Development*
>>>>>> web <https://www.hotosm.org/> | twitter <https://twitter.com/hotosm>
>>>>>> | facebook <https://www.facebook.com/HOTOSMPhilippines/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Nick Brown*
>>>> Country Manager for HOT Philippines
>>>> nick.br...@hotosm.org
>>>>
>>>> *Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team*
>>>> *Using OpenStreetMap for Disaster Risk Reduction, Response &
>>>> Development*
>>>> web <https://www.hotosm.org/> | twitter <https://twitter.com/hotosm> |
>>>> facebook <https://www.facebook.com/HOTOSMPhilippines/>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> *Nick Brown*
>> Country Manager for HOT Philippines
>> nick.br...@hotosm.org
>>
>> *Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team*
>> *Using OpenStreetMap for Disaster Risk Reduction, Response & Development*
>> web <https://www.hotosm.org/> | twitter <https://twitter.com/hotosm> |
>> facebook <https://www.facebook.com/HOTOSMPhilippines/>
>>
>
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