Thanks Jeff for bringing this into our attention and Roman for looking
into this. I think OSM in Turkey is still growing (rather slowly) and
needs some more attention. As Roman mentioned, there is a group on
Facebook where
people from Turkey discuss OSM, but it is rather casual and some members
do not speak English. I am an active OSM member mapping in and outside of
Turkey. I am also leading efforts to translate iD to Turkish and OSM wiki
into Turkish.
I've done a quick research on administrative unit system in Turkey. The
document that could be used to model place classification is available
here <https://www.csb.gov.tr/db/cbs/editordosya/Idari_Birim.pdf>. Turkish
administrative system is sort of messy and complicated. I think it is
important to have a discussion about place type classifications.
From
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place#Administratively_declared_places
perspective, the following mapping sounds reasonable to me:
- place=country => ülke
- place=state => not applicable
- place=region => bölge
- place=province => il
- place=district => semt/ilçe - I think semt is a name used for "ilçe"
when
"ilçe" is part of the city center's administrative boundary. The
following
image has districts of İstanbul -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_in_Turkey#/media/File:Istanbul_location_districts.svg
Semt
vs ilçe don't seem any different. But look at the districts of Eskişehir
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_in_Turkey#/media/File:Eski%C5%9Fehir_districts.png
Tepebaşı and Odunpazarı forms the city Eskişehir (marked with black
border). These "semt"s are combined together under "büyükşehir
belediyesi".
Look at Afyonkarahisar -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_in_Turkey#/media/File:Afyonkarahisar_districts.png
In this case city center only has one "semt/ilçe", which is
"Afyonkarahisar
merkezi". They are referred as "merkez ilçe".
- place=county => I don't think this type really applies to Turkey.
- place=municipality => This could be another source of confusion. We've
had recent updates to town smaller than "ilçe", but bigger than "köy".
This
type could be mapped to "belde" I think.
Regarding
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place#Populated_settlements.2C_urban
- place=city => il, şehir, even bigger metropolitan cities are could be
mapped to this type.
- place=borough => I don't think this is really applicable.
- place=suburb => Again this could be used for "'ilçe" and "semt".
- place=quarter => Similar to borough, I don't think this is really
applicable.
- place=neighbourhood => This is mahalle. Within "semt/ilçe" we have
neighbourhoods.
- place=city_block => Doesn't really apply to Turkey.
Looking at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place#Populated_settlements.2C_urban_and_rural
I can easily tell that Turkish place/administrative unit system doesn't
really fit into here. Let's look at Afyonkarahisar district map again -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_in_Turkey#/media/File:Afyonkarahisar_districts.png
I am from Emirdağ. It could be referred as town and district as well. My
town has neighborhoods just like districts have. The municipality system
is
same as districts. So I think we can classify them as town and also
district.
- place=town => ilçe, but rural ilçe. "Belde"s are towns that belong to
another town, but bigger than a village.
- place=village => köy (doesn't have municipality, but rather part of a
ilçe, just like belde)
- place=hamlet => mezra/mahalle (be aware the use of mahalle here)
- place=isolated_dwelling => could be mezra/mahalle I think.
On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 5:00 AM, <talk-tr-requ...@openstreetmap.org>
wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Istanbul neighborhood classifications (Jeff Haack)
2. Re: Istanbul neighborhood classifications (Roman Neumüller)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 10:42:29 +0300
From: Jeff Haack <jeff.ha...@hotosm.org>
To: talk-tr@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-tr] Istanbul neighborhood classifications
Message-ID:
<CAKLN2i93rxg1OQKMh=KXB9PkZq8HCKfiutzq5hWBknWoOEKUjg@mail.
gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi OSMers,
I'm trying to understand the placename classifications in Istanbul and
how
those relate to OSM tags, and hoping someone can help. In Istanbul
there
are ilçe (districts) and mahalle (neighborhoods). But then there are
also
semtler - what is the difference between mahalle and semtler?
Also I'm wondering about how to tag places. From the OSM wiki it seems
that districts should be place=suburb and mahalle should be
place=neighborhood, but on the map the districts are usually place=town
and
mahalle/semtleri are either place=suburb or place=neighborhood. Is
there
any reason for tagging ilçe as place=town?
Does anyone have a suggestion on how to formalize the tags?
Cheers,
Jeff
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 12:40:49 +0300
From: Roman Neumüller <em...@katpatuka.org>
To: talk-tr@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-tr] Istanbul neighborhood classifications
Message-ID: <op.y2uiiblwkn9205@bigmama>
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delsp=yes
Hi Jeff,
I've been mapping a lot in Turkey but can only tell for sure that
* il = province (admin_level=4)
* ilçe = town = district = district center (admin_level=6)
* köy = village (admin_level=8)
Concerning suburb/neighborhood (mahalle/semt) I'm still unsure and up to
now
didn't get ANY response from the Turkish community regarding
classification
(see
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-tr/2014-
November/000362.html)
The community is not very active in the mailinglist - they may be more
active in
a facebook group (I don't use fb)
https://www.facebook.com/OpenStreetMapTurkey/
Semt seems as if only being used in big cities - wikipedia calls them
"quarters":
* https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategori:Türkiye'deki_semtler
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Quarters_in_Turkey
Even villages may have 1) suburbs which I give the neighborhood tag and
2)
"mezra"s
where I use hamlet.
Yayla vary from location (no house at all) over hamlet (some houses) to
suburb/village
(if big like a village)
Wikipedia says yayla = Plateau - in German I'd rather call them "Alm".
Bucak is sort of deprecated
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucak_(administrative_unit))
Another thing is that most villages in metropolitan municipalities have
been converted
to suburbs (6360 Metropolıtan Law) after 2012
http://econpapers.repec.org/article/scn000raj/383.htm
On Tue, 04 Jul 2017 10:42:29 +0300, Jeff Haack <jeff.ha...@hotosm.org>
wrote:
> Hi OSMers,
>
> I'm trying to understand the placename classifications in Istanbul and
> how those relate to OSM tags, and hoping someone can help. In
Istanbul
> there
> are ilçe (districts) and mahalle (neighborhoods). But then there are
> also semtler - what is the difference between mahalle and semtler?
>
> Also I'm wondering about how to tag places. From the OSM wiki it
seems
> that districts should be place=suburb and mahalle should be
> place=neighborhood, but on the map the districts are usually
place=town
> and mahalle/semtleri are either place=suburb or place=neighborhood.
Is
> there
> any reason for tagging ilçe as place=town?
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion on how to formalize the tags?
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff
--
katpatuka.org
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