This post is slightly spooky as only the other day I told Ed and Marc at opencage to reclaim the box, I can't be bothered anymore. It's been dormant for 12 months. The bus stuff works certainly as poc. Getting hold of all the UK buses was beyond me, but Ireland and Holland have accessible saturation coverage of everything that moves. The process I developed handles both those countries on modest hardware within a day, RoI about 3 hours flat I think. I didn't pay the bill at digital ocean and they zapped my database despite the good money I paid.for backups. I was working at a planetary level if you like, I was piling on humongous amounts of data and repairing bottle necks. I had everything but North America, a substantial chunk but a lot less than half of the whole lot, and I'd already done the GTFS of countless other civilizations and bonkers datasets. Just from a fun point of view, New York is a scared place if you are building this. I was leaving her till last. I looked at this subject very deeply for several years and produced a substantial architecture to handle not just national level , but the entire planetary infrastructure. To cope with that you are obviously going to need an incremental architecture, the data set is moving so rapidly you'd never get it printed. So I concocted an hierarchical incremental reductive tile rendering architecture I call Archimedes. So we not only print just what we need to but we can actually update the higher and global tiles in almost real time.Even places like Paris become a serious mouthful. We are trying to mechanically tag essentially our own way grouping with all the relevant services. The data is presented in an often super stupendously redundant manner I extensively stress tested this architecture. I was about to go coast to coast and hoover up all those Canoga Park metros in the US but I couldn't find the Greyhound stuff and hence not a national picture. It was intended as my gift to you, I do this for free. If the UK is so incompetent it can't even collect the GTFS that must necessarily exist for it to be on Google, Greyhound buses and Indian railways, consider the critical details of their national level public service to be not public domain information, and with nobody in here paying any commercial attention to me, I packed in. There are some potentially intractable issues with line/network reduction, I drifted off into trying to render a road map that would show me say Kazakhstan or Brazil at full view, but still handle Dortmund, Shanghai and the Eastern seaboard. I believe that is doable, and just the transport infrastructure is complex enough so needs btonbe addressed. . Just painting a substantial city in one view needs reduction and I wanted to build an interrogative map where you can pan out and discover stuff. We don't have much in the way of ferry data on GTFS but on examination of them on the map I decided they were quite reliable enough to be considered real. The boat network on the Irrawaddy delta is stupendous FYI.You can get away with scrawling the timetable on the map for ferries, it's perhaps a valid counter example as they are almost entirely mapped on a per service basis. The Baltic routes are too dense but almost everywhere else it's basically a service announcement. I guess that's accepted practice and I think it works. Doing it for bus and rail is futile and will result in worthless archeological data. The only way this can be done is essentially getting the route planner to draw routes from GTFS. If you think that's not ultimately commercially feasible, at least not on a grand scale, we are just going to have to endure a world of bits and pieces where you have to in effect know where you are going beforehand, then in the final analysis I have to concede defeat. If on the other hand you'd like to have a go at an interactive bus map, and with a wee bit of cooperation from the route finding people also the trains, of the entire global published GTFS dataset, it is most certainly doable.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 at 4:58, Philip Barnes<p...@trigpoint.me.uk> wrote: On Mon, 2021-05-31 at 22:18 +0100, Michael Tsang wrote: > On Monday, 31 May 2021 16:14:47 BST Roger Slevin wrote: > > and one in which I agree with Tony, Mark and Peter in saying that > > public > > transport services and timetables don’t appear to me to have a > > valid place > > in OSM > > We have already mapped the complete bus networks in certain cities. > In OSM > terms, a public transport route is defined as "the order where the > service > stops to carry passengers, and the path where it transverse on". It > does not > include the timetable data. > > I have also mapped a lot of bus and train routes in different cities > as well, > and it is very useful for OSM to have bus and train routes. When I > travel to a > new city I use OsmAnd a lot to find which bus I need to take to go to > a certain > direction, and where it will stop. > I think you are missing the point that GB is not a city. Cities are densly pack and urban transport systems reflect this. In London tube trains simply stop at every station. This structure will not work when it comes to rural stations, and what we have works very well. It would not be efficient to stop every trains at stations which only have a few dozen passengers in a day. > The problem with GB railways is that each departure serves completely > different > stops, which means, if we strictly follow the "one variant = one > relation" > model as in current PTv2 schema, we have to map each departure as > distinct > relations on the map, because each departure serves different stops, > which mean > they are different variants. You also have to remember that the timetables and hence services are seasonal to reflect different passenger demands. Many of us have thought about train routes but concluded on a country level they are too complex and require a huge amount of mainatainance. The timetable changes every 6 months, and as a minimum needs to be checked. I started thinking about my local station, to the North trains can go to Crewe, Chester or Manchester Piccadilly. To the south trains can go to Shrewsbury, Birmingham International, Cardiff Central, Swansea, Carmathen, Pembroke Dock, Milford Haven and Fishguard. That is all before to start considering which of the dozens of stations each service calls, or may call at if it is a request stop. As other have said, this is not something that belongs in OSM. If you need to work out how to get somewhere then the train companies apps and websites work very well. If you want to include buses as well the traveline is excellent. Phil (trigpoint) _______________________________________________ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
_______________________________________________ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
