Hi Blaise,
Again thanks for that terrific article link.
I am wondering which of the two options presented is likely to allow for
the greatest command line access?
I am feeling avlinux, but that is just a feeling.
The command line aspect is critical since a graphical structure will not
work with speech for me if I come in from the outside.
I will cripple check that to be certain though.
Thanks again,
Karen
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
I'll keep this on-list since people seem to be interested!
Libre Music Production has a good getting started guide on selecting a GNU/Linux
distribution for pro audio:
http://libremusicproduction.com/articles/advantages-choosing-audio-orientated-linux-distribution
That article recommends an audio distribution, because they have certain tweaks
applied, like the low latency kernel selection, or changes to
/etc/security/limits.conf with respect to the audio group, etc. Using an audio
distribution, or the KXStudio repositories, handles much of that for you.
(But the KXStudio repositories don't include the kernel.)
In Ubuntu, there's a linux-lowlatency package. In Debian, I added the Liquorix
repositories to get that low latency kernel.
That Libre Music Production article doesn't go into a lot of technical detail,
but it explains:
"""
Realtime audio performance is important to many when working with audio
software. What this means in real terms is having the recorded signal played
back through your playback system without any audible delay. This is important
when monitoring your performance. Latency is inherent in computers but there are
things that can be done to minimize it.
There are many tweaks, big and small, that Linux distros make under the hood
that are beneficial to this and general audio performance. As an end user, you
don't need to know the technical ins and outs of what these do. You just need to
know that the end result is that audio processes are prioritized by the
operating system, thus, allowing you to more easily achieve stable and/or low
latency audio.
"""
There's more technical information on latency and audio production in the Ardour
manual, but far more in depth than you really need to understand!
http://manual.ardour.org/synchronization/latency-and-latency-compensation/
I've tried using the standard Debian Jessie kernel. With that on my machine, the
best I can do without audio glitches (xruns) is about ~21ms latency. With
liquorix, it's ~2ms.
If you're playing something slow or flowy, you might not even notice the
difference. But if you're playing a series of fast notes, or something rhythmic
or percussive, it's really disorienting to have that slight delay between
pressing the keys on your keyboard and hearing the sound. It's often noticeable
in normal music performance.
A low latency Linux kernel -- which is basically the standard Linux kernel, but
with some changes around scheduling and deadlines -- just allows for a more
natural feel for pro audio, where you can hear notice when you play them rather
than with a slight delay.
Hope that helps...
Blaise
On 15/12/15 03:27 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hi Blaise,
one of two.
Thanks for the off list invitation! I shall certainly write you, but at least
given another post, will keep some of this on list.
i am posting the software options in that reply. still can you explain, or
can others give examples of low latency kernels?
What a fascinating idea.
More in a moment,
Kare
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
Thanks for the additional details!
I'm Debian-based these days, with the KXStudio repositories for current audio
production software and a low latency liquorix kernel, though I'm also still
running Ubuntu Studio on my home desktop.
One thing that may be a challenge (for which others on the list might have more
knowledge) is your issue with speech in post-Squeeze Linux kernels. For pro
audio work, the standard Squeeze kernel isn't going to be great... you want a
low latency kernel if you want notes to play when you press them on a MIDI
keyboard, or to be able to play back audio from several instrument sources at
the same time reliably, nevermind to record any audio reliably.
So I'm not sure how you solve that problem -- an older low latency kernel
perhaps, which supports your speech hardware requirements but also pro audio?
I'm not quite sure.
(Also, are you using JACK yet? That may be another challenge with speech
software, though an ALSA or Pulseaudio bridge may do the trick.)
Beyond that, maybe best to take the discussion off-list? Feel free to email me
at [email protected].
Blaise
On 15/12/15 01:11 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Hello Blaise,
Thanks so very much in advance for the wisdom I feel sure you can provide.
I honestly admit to being a touch of a singer snob who imagines one can only
perform live with well other live people smiles.
So when Bob wrote of your creating, I confess I got rather curious as well.
As for command line music making tools, there are actually rather a few I am
learning. I am compiling a list with links, since I do not know yet your
distribution of preference, or exactly how you work.
Articulating my desires musically may make more sense than the ssh telnet aspect
truth be told.
In all honesty however, I cannot say with hands on firmness that I can drive the
car where I wish to go.
I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past few years.
Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head and heart
onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can understand.
Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics, I want to
play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc., that are in my head and
then
get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet possibly.
How I imagine doing this, is with a quality piano / keyboard that also has
several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for composition
only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am writing.
<Still awake?>
Now, this is where my visual memory, blended with my lack of first hand Linux
experience starts to get a bit...well hopeful.
I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard to the m-audio audiophile 2496 sound
card I have in mind, using any one of the dozen or so tools for the command
line I am finding are included in Debian, writing each part one at a time,
putting the piece together, and transferring the completed work to a composing
package, you referenced Lillypoind, which is terrific, but there are a couple
more.
I am hunting the instrument along with the talent for the Linux side of my
desire.
The older the better in a way, I tend to be a buttons kind of girl, not a touch
screen one.
Granted I know some keyboards have multi-track sequencers built in. Letting me
<I think? compose entirely on said keyboard and transfer the finished
product...strong emphasis on the I think.
There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides the
traditional way of doing the recording, I am a radio producer too, so have pro
tools, a mac a control surface etc. etc.
Still I would rather use Linux because I know the composition programs exist,
that i may be able to script in Linux some of what I need...not me, but tap into
some sources for this. There is no real program for composition mac wise,
certainly not going back to the edition I am using to run my pro tools setup.
The ssh-telnet aspect simply lets me treat the Linux box like a server, running
the commands from my main computer where I am already comfortable, both with
my speech synthesizer, and in a small way with the command line based on my
daily use of a comparative Linux shell.
Oh that reminds me, I spoke of issues with speech in more current Linux
Kernels. This is because the ability to use a hardware source for speech no
longer exists in the new ones, like in Jessie. Only software speech which for
me is out of the question.
One can compile the new distribution with the older Kennel, but that. is. way!!!
beyond me laughs.
Is all this making more sense?
Will have those programs for you tomorrow.
Thanks for joining the adventure!
I likewise thank you Bob for inviting Blaise to the party.
Kare
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
Hi Karen,
I don't have very much experience with command line tools for music in
GNU/Linux, barring some pretty simple uses (encoding, monitoring MIDI notes,
making minor edits to sheet music typeset in Lilypond generated by Rosegarden).
But I have taken a head-first dive into audio production in GNU/Linux over the
past few years, and I use it for live performance and for composition and home
recording. I'd also be personally interested in at least some command line
tools
for doing some of the things I currently do in GUIs.
I don't think I fully understand what you're trying to do (both musically, or
with the SSH component), but hopefully I can be of some assistance. Very
curious
to learn more about what you're hoping to do in case I can help!
Regards,
Blaise
ps thanks for pinging me, Bob!
On 11/12/15 06:38 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Wow that must have been amazing. The Linux audio list at yahoo groups is full
of people mostly in Europe who use command line Linux tools for their music
work, some of them are authors of packages included.
Still it would be fun to witness it firsthand.
Kare
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote:
At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free
Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using
graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux part
covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical performance
tools too. I'll ping him with this message.
I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio
equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for
GTALUG... :)
--Bob.
SFDToronto:
http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet
Bob Jonkman <[email protected]> Phone: +1-519-635-9413
SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/
Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting
GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only recently found
this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/
songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to
make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux
for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media
materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my
desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it
directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for example one
sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496
production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In
any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm
knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not
until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the
extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell
structures. I am using one at this moment based in freedsb, to
draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit
media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want
to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I would
rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn
more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me
be sure my post is suitable before both asking and answering
questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
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